1989Pre

I got my first pair of road shoes today, Lake CX170's. I am trying to get them to fit my pedals, which are Speedplay Frog Ti's. I know that Frogs are considered MTB pedals, but I didn't think that was going to be an issue. In the owner's manual for the pedals, it says do not install Frog cleats on road pedals.
Where should I go from here? Is it possible to find cleats that work for these shoes and pedals?
Also, Lake included two small black, steel plates with four holes in them. What are these plates?

HillRider

The current generation of Frog cleats can be mounted on road shoes as noted in this quote from Speedplay's web site:

"•G3 Frog cleat is stronger, more durable, easier to mount and compatible with two-hole SPD®-style road shoes."

So assuming you have the newer cleats and your shoes have the SPD two-hole pattern you are ok. The 4-hole plates go inside the insole and the bolts that hold the cleats are threaded into two of the holes to fasten them in place. There are two sets of holes to give you some latitude in cleat placement.

fietsbob

SPUDS on road shoe pontoons for stability on either side,
if I were you Id be taking the shoes off promptly upon getting off the bike..
those cleats are a lot more costly to wear out too soon.

HillRider

Those pontoons were only provided with Shimano's own road SPD cleats and have no application to Speedplay or any other cleats.

fietsbob

I realize nobody fabricates much of their own stuff.. , something,
a couple rubber cabinet feet screwed into the shoe sole
would keep you from falling on your butt.

I still would take those shoes off as soon as I stopped spinning.

1989Pre

Hill, I bought these Frogs back around 2000. Thanks for letting me know about how to attach the Lake-supplied plates, but I have a three-hole system on the bottom of these soles. I am not sure if the newer Frog cleats will fit, then, or not. Sounds like they won't.
Fiets, what are "road shoe pontoons"? Thanks for the heads-up, by the way.

Paul

HillRider

Yeah, if you only have the three-hole drilling you are out-of-luck for mounting Frog cleats as they require the two-hole SPD pattern sole drilling. In the past many road shoes came drilled for both patterns but since Shimano dropped their old road pedals and went to the three-hole Look-alike cleat the SPD drilling has pretty much gone away on road shoes but is still the standard on MTB shoes.

The "Pontoons" were thick narrow rubber pads mounted on cross brackets that were bolted under Shimano road SPD cleats (SH70) to let you walk (albeit awkwardly) without the cleats hitting the ground. Here is a picture of what those cleats and pontoons looked like:

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-spd-...gn=RTC_shimano

digger

I've been using Frogs on 2 road bikes (1 is a touring bike) since 2000. I use them on SPD recessed MTB shoes. Recently, I started to use a "touring" type Shimano shoe, that has a smooth sole, but recessed. https://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?ID=97138

Although I like the Frog pedal, I have finally decided not to continue using them when these cleats wear out. To buy cleats where I live, they cost $65 each. I can buy 2 sets of cleats from CRC or Wiggle for that amount.

Plus, it does not take long for the clicking noise to start when the cleat starts to wear. Then the shoe will rock side-to-side.

If you somehow mount these on non-SPD road shoes, then I would concur with others; remove those shoes when you get off the bike and try not to walk in them.

They wear out incredibly fast when on the recessed MTB shoes for road riding. I can't imagine how fast they would wear on a road shoe.

I also can't imagine using them for off-road riding, when you have to walk considerably more. Recessed or not, the cleat does hit the ground.

HillRider

I also use Frogs strictly on road bikes with recessed sole MTB-type shoes including the Shimano Touring shoes you referenced and have ridden over 150,000 miles using them. In that time I've owned 5 sets of these pedals, two were discarded with 33,000 and 35,000 miles each and three pair are still in service.

So, obviously, I've found the pedals and cleats to be very durable and they don't develop looseness or play for a very long time and walking moderately on them has done little to no damage. Yes, the cleat does graze the ground so I'm very careful to remove my shoes before walking on any hardwood or other sensitive floors.

I agree on their unsuitability as off-road pedals but it's not a durability issue. The problem is the cleats clog easily with mud, gravel, etc and have to be manually cleaned before they will lock in.

digger

I've no issue with the pedal, rather the cleat.

I'm curious if you lube the cleat? I lube mine with Pedros Ice Wax. Just because this stuff is useless for a chain. Since Speedplay states to lube with a dry type lube, then that's what I've been using

HillRider

I don't lube the cleats very often but I try to keep them and the pedals themselves fairly clean. When I do lube them I use WD-40 (shudder) and wipe off the excess or just rub them with paraffin if I have some available.

I find the cleats have been very durable and don't develop play to the point it's even noticeable. The current cleats have an adjustment screw in the rear to take up slack but I've never had to use it. The locking blocks (what Speedplay calls the "Cantilevers") do break at the elastomer after tons of use but they can be replaced without having to buy a complete new cleat.

rogerstg

Unlike digger, I've got over 4000 miles on one a set of frog cleats with no problems. The only time I had a clicking noise was on a weeklong tour. It was simply one of the cleat screws that was not tight enough. It was not loose really, just not tight enough. I ended up using some nail polish as a thread locker and it's been fine since.

digger

A few months ago I remember reading a post from a gentlemen who just buys a new set of Frogs when his cleats wear out. Then sells the old pedals.

So, you guys, Hillrider and Rogerstg, do not notice that your foot rocks from side to side after only a few thousand kms? Jeez, it is quite noticeable and my feet will move vertical on the pedal when cycling making a tick noise. I emailed Speedplay about this and they say, "likely your cleat is worn and needs to be replaced." If I install a cleat now, it will be "worn" by Speedplay standards by the end of this coming fall. Say, 4,000km (ish).

I lube them with the dry lube every 1 to 2 rides. I walk in them only moderatly. I don't even walk down my 300 foot gravel drioveway in them, rather wear sneakers and change at the bottom.

One trick I have found is to turn the ring over on the pedal to alleviate the movement. The tab on the edge of this ring will wear and look like a ramp. Turning this ring over to engage the unworn part of this tab helps alot.

HillRider

I've never noticed rocking or free movement in any direction (except the rotational float of course) even after thousand of miles on both the pedals and cleats so it's not a problem I've had to deal with. I just looked at one pair of my pedals with 20,000 miles (32,000km) on them and the rings show no noticable wear. Maybe I'm just easy on stuff.

rogerstg

There's nothing for me to notice because it doesn't happen to me, except for the time the screws needed to be tightened. Maybe you've got a few loose screws. (good natured pun intended, emoticons not working for me)

Camilo

I just skimmed the thread, so if this has been said, oh well.


Two hole pattern: All "two bolt" cleats (any MTB cleat) will fit any two hole shoe.

Any three hole shoe that does not also have a two hole pattern, can be converted to a two hole pattern through the use of a sole adapter. Shimano makes one, but there are others: simply search on those terms and see what you find.

The Shimano "pontoons" can be used with any two hole cleat.

Therfore: if you have a three hole shoe, but want to use your Frog (or SPD, or Crank Brothers, etc.) cleats and pedals, just buy a sole adapter and a set of pontoons.

HillRider

No they can't. The pontoons won't work with the MTB versions of Shimano's SPD cleats (the 5X series), they only fit the "road" SPD (7X series). I found this out the hard way when I tried to add pontoons to a road shoe so I could use the MTB cleats. The pontoons wouldn't fit and wouldn't work. A call to Shimano confirmed this incompatibility.

Bezalel

The Shimano cleat adapter requires 5 (or 7) holes but Lake's site says "3-hole & optional SPD compatible" so is sounds like the SM-SH40 would work in this case

Camilo

Yea, you're right. I mistook the cleats I had. I also just looked at a set of Frog cleats I have, and I don't believe they would work with those pontoons I have. On the other hand, in looking at some literature I have from the sole adapters, it looks like Shimano does make a pontoon that might be usable w/ the X5 cleats and /or frogs. But I can't be sure. It seems so simple to make a quasi-universal set of pontoons that would work with any two hole cleat. I'm going to look and if I find one, I'll try to remember to re-post on this thread.

The Shimano sole adapters I have work with any three hole sole as far as I can tell. I'm not familiar with the Lake ones though.

Sorry about posting mis-information. Should have waited until I actually had the stuff in front of me.

Camilo

Originally Posted by Camilo Originally Posted by HillRider
Then me again...
Just for grins, I did a little experiment last night. I have a set of the standard Shimano pontoons. I also have an old set of the standard Shimano MTB cleats SH-51 type. The pontoons are actually made for the SH-70 family of cleats.

If you have a dremel or grinder, or even a file, you can pretty easily modify the SH-5X cleats to work with the pontoons. You just turn the oval-shaped inset that the bolts go into into a slot by grinding off the ends. Then the pontoon hardware can fit into. I think if you look at the difference between the cleats and the way the pontoon fits into the "slot" of the SH-7X cleat, I think it's pretty clear.

Compare the two cleats.




I'll try to post a photo of what I did later. With a dremel and the standard little disposible cut-off and grinding wheels it took me about 10 minutes and was not a skilled thing.

But I don't think this will work with a frog cleat - I might just give it a gander later, in case once again I'm speaking out of my you-know-what.

fietsbob

.02, you can buy stick on cabinet feet just to get the function the shimano widget offers..
a bit more stability , to walk to a chair where you take your shoes off.