Why can't you lock the rear wheel if seated? I can do it on all my SP's and they all use different pads.

I weigh 65kg.

Um, wrong. I think the one blowing his horn here is you, claiming you're too good to even see the point of increased mechanical advantage in a brake.

I'm prepared to put up $100 to say the best SP will be lucky to lock up the front, and a poxy RSX DP will do it with ease. All you have is insults.

So put your money where your mouth is, or GTFO. Fair enough?

Wow, I'm just plain floored by your arrogance! I never once said I, let me repeat myself 3 different ways for the hard to understand, that means me, myself, and I, are the 3 people responsible for great braking!! What I said was that SP or DP can stop a bike just as fast as each other if the brakes are both adjusted correctly, the pads are the same, rims are the same, the bikes are the same, carrying weight is the same, and the road conditions are the same. That has nothing to do with me...do you understand now? Probably not.

And yes I can get SP brakes to toss me over the handle bars should I chose to do so. You need to watch some old racing films involving near crashes and crashes where a rider with SP brakes has to stop too fast and goes over the bike. Not only have I been able to lock up the front but knew plenty of riders that used SP brakes to do the same thing. I've actually been able to lock up the front in a skid...on dry pavement yet to boot. Imagine that! While your imagining that also imagine that I'm not the only person who was ever able to do that with SP's.

It's people like you that I know for sure has NEVER ridden quality SP brakes.

I currently weigh 160 pounds if weight vs braking matters.

Idk, maybe I should change the cables/house cause they are really old and fell grimy, but is such a PITA to replace those: cables trough the toptube, cables trough the handlebars, As well on the front it goes trough handlebars (aero levers) - handmade full chrome swiss frame- I'm lucky not to have swiss threads on the bb
I just get the hang of it as I'm not a hard brake user, just enough to slow me down for a stop (and makes me heartache to actually convert hard earned kinetic energy to heat at the pads). So I usually avoid brakes.

What are these, then?

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=259828

These are what I had before I put on my first DP and endoed. They're the ones with the effing ball race, FFS. I've had the 600 ones too. Is that fancy enough for you?

I'm not trying to say they can't lock the front, I'm just saying you can't do it easily without nice pads; I'm saying I was justified in thinking brakes should be better before DPs came along.

DP = reliable maximum braking, SP = rear brake (better modulation because of its lesser mechanical advantage), end of story.

It's people like you who I know for sure the term retrogrouch might be considered apropriate. DPs might be ugly, but you only need one, live with it.

Here's a question: alleged disadvantages of a DP?

A picture you downloaded off the internet, like this: http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl...9,r:5,s:0,i:91 It even looks like a internet picture. I'm sure you took your brake caliper off and staged a photo with a white background...right.

Again you can't read, I never stated anywhere of any disadvantages to DP brakes other then a personal thing about not being able to modulate a DP brake quite as well as SP, not that that's a bad thing or a disadvantage, just my own personal thing.

Edit; even IF you do own those brakes doesn't mean you have the good pads, doesn't mean you had them adjusted correctly, doesn't mean they worked as they were intended, doesn't mean the cables were bad or of poor quality, doesn't mean a lot of things.

What a freaking troll, to suggest I'm passing that off as my own pic.

It's the same model, you turkey, the same freaking colour even. Go play in traffic with your crappy brakes.

I play in traffic all the time with my crappy brakes for over 40 years of trouble free braking using crappy SP brakes...that includes descending steep mountain roads in California...really? Do I mean to tell you that with cheap crappy SP brakes I can stop my bike at 55 mph on a steep descent without a problem? you figure it out.

Edit; for more years then DP brakes have been around people descended mountain grades in races and could stop just fine with SP brakes. In fact yesterdays TDF races involved steeper climbs and descents then todays TDF races. I never once saw a rider fly off a mountain due to bad SP brakes either in races pro or races I was in at cat 3, or training, or just plain riding. This is how I know for a fact you never rode with SP brakes, at least properly adjusted quality ones.

DP weigh more, 1/4-lb on 50,000ft of climbing over the course of a stage-race can add up. Also more difficult to modulate at the traction-limit of the front-tyre.

But the assertion you're making is about DP brakes "significantly outperforming" SP brakes. Those 105 SP brake are the exact same ones I bought 25-years ago. Doesn't matter what kind of pads are in them, I can stop from 20mph in around 15-16ft with the rear-tyre skimming the tarmac. It is simply not possible to stop any faster than that due to the laws of physics. Not sure how DP brakes can "significantly outperform" that. Give me a braking-distance number.

Oh now come on, your being too logical, and the lessor logical people can't follow you. Everyone knows that when you hit the brakes on DP's at 20mph you'll stop in about 6 inches and in the rain maybe a foot, tires have nothing to do with anything, it's all about the DP being superior to SP. There was some talk years ago when DP's came out that because they stopped so fast they were considering putting air bags strapped onto handlebars to prevent the face plant that occurs with such rapid deceleration.

I'd like to see a video of that one. 15-16 feet is only about three bike lengths. That would be an amazing feat considering that in a power stop the rear of the bike would become quite light, so you basicly have a couple square inches of contact patch under the front tire to work with. For most people, 16-feet would be the distance they were launched over the handlebars when they endoed.

rekmeyata, now you're just blatantly straw-manning. Don't expect me to respond to you any further.

You can do that from the hoods in the wet with crappy pads on hardox rims, can you? Interesting.

Thank God for that!!!!

http://jonthebaptist.com/spanish_inquisition4.jpg

Hah! Because, etc.

Tell your invisible sky dude I said hi.

Your seeing invisible sky dudes? Ok...