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RE: XT Deore Shimano FH-M730 Rear Hub, Where Does The Thin Freehub Body Washer Go?

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RE: XT Deore Shimano FH-M730 Rear Hub, Where Does The Thin Freehub Body Washer Go?

Old 06-25-12, 03:45 PM
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joejeweler
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RE: XT Deore Shimano FH-M730 Rear Hub, Where Does The Thin Freehub Body Washer Go?

Hi all,....i got around to servicing the rear hub ball bearings today, and somehow didn't notice a thin washer that got caught in a paper towel until after i put it all back together. I've looked for a parts schematic, but haven't been able to find one on this 1987 period hub.

I think this is the part, but much smaller and just fits over the outside of the hollow axle: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/shimano-f...400-prod23521/

I've since had the bearings out 4X on both sides, trying it in different ways to get it right. I thought it must go under the ball bearings on one of the sides against the flat section of the inner hub, below the ball bearing area.

The lastest try with the washer on the cassette side, and positioned against the flat before the bearings were put back, seems to have the chainstay spacing ok. However, the freewheel clicking sound is now gone????

The cassette drives the wheel ok, and continues to spin freely when i stop turning the crank with wheel mounted. But now the wheel is completely silent! No light clicking of the pawls.

I'm wondering if, with all the times i've had the bearings out (and i added more bearing grease before i put the axle back in each time) that possibly some of the grease has worked up inside the pawl area and it's just too heavy to allow the customary clicking sound?

Anyway,.....if anyone has a schematic of this old hub, or knows definitively where the thin washer should go,....please let me know.

thanks,
Joe T

Edited: I was planning on taking the cassette off and servicing the pawl area also, but i'll need a 2nd chain whip to get mine apart. MY LBS never mentioned that when i told them what i needed. Guess the Uniglide FH-M730 has been out too long for them to remember.

.....at least i think i'll need two chain whips, one to hold the large rear gear, and another to twist the small threaded one off. Looks that way anyway. I do have the Parks "FR-1" freewheel remover already. once i get the cassette off.

Last edited by joejeweler; 06-25-12 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 06-25-12, 04:43 PM
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Edit. you seem to be all over the place with this. You have a freehub with a freehub body; the FR-1 is for a freewheel, read this https://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html and it will make more sense. The washer you referenced goes between the freehub body and the hub, however if you did not remove the freehub than it's something else

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Old 06-25-12, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
The washer goes between the freehub body and the hub..
So as i understand it, the washer rests underneath the 9 wheel bearings on the cassette side, and rests "on" the inner flat surface of the hub?

....just want to be clear since i didn't remove the freehub body.

Also,...any reason my pawl clicking has been silenced from repeated bearing lube being added? Dangerous to run this way? (stealth mode )

thanks,
Joe T
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Old 06-25-12, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by joejeweler View Post
So as i understand it, the washer rests underneath the 9 wheel bearings on the cassette side, and rests "on" the inner flat surface of the hub?

....just want to be clear since i didn't remove the freehub body.

Also,...any reason my pawl clicking has been silenced from repeated bearing lube being added? Dangerous to run this way? (stealth mode )

thanks,
Joe T
See edit above in my first post
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Old 06-25-12, 05:08 PM
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Further, although it looks like there are splines inside the freehub, the way it is removed is with a 10mm allen wrench down the middle of the the freehub body and it will connect into a 10mm allen bolt at the bottom. My guess is the washer in question is probably a spacer on your axle. see this these instruction for a visual https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...reehub-service

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 06-25-12 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 06-25-12, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
Further, although it looks like there are splines inside the freehub, the way it is removed is with a 10mm allen wrench down the middle of the the freehub body and it will connect into a 10mm allen bolt at the bottom. My guess is the washer in question is probably a spacer on your axle. see this these instruction for a visual https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...reehub-service
Thanks for your imput,.....should have mentioned i didn't have the freehub body off.

It sure doesn't help that the Shimano website has WONDERFUL schematic breakdowns of most of their later and current componant groups,......but NONE of their early groups such as the XT M730 group. Shame on them,...really!

I'm sure comewhere there is a schematic breakdown of these early groups, just haven't been able to locate it.
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Old 06-25-12, 07:43 PM
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A lot of things have changed since that hub was made, but the ball bearings fit the same way as current-generation freehubs. The ball bearings rest in the bearing cup that's part of the freehub body, and the cone rides on the balls. That's it. No washers should be interfacing with your ball bearings in any way. If this washer just fits over the axle, it probably belongs between your cone and locknut.
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Old 06-25-12, 07:53 PM
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mechBgone and onespeed have called it spot on; the washer in question is part of the axle, not the freehub body.
It should go between one of your lock nuts and the bearing cone.

I don't know why your freehub pawls have been silenced, but suspect it's as you surmised with the amount of
grease you've used to repack the hub bearings.

As far as old schematic drawings of Shimano components are concerned; Shimano made it a habit of making the
older small parts and 411 'obsolete' after a period of time. We used to call it "planned obsolescence", and made sure not to
throw out the older parts catalogs as new ones were issued, for answers exactly like yours. Nowadays the Internet
would be the best source for information like that... just be very specific in your search query.

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Old 06-25-12, 10:27 PM
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joejeweler
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Originally Posted by oldskoolwrench View Post
mechBgone and onespeed have called it spot on; the washer in question is part of the axle, not the freehub body.
It should go between one of your lock nuts and the bearing cone.

I don't know why your freehub pawls have been silenced, but suspect it's as you surmised with the amount of
grease you've used to repack the hub bearings.

As far as old schematic drawings of Shimano components are concerned; Shimano made it a habit of making the
older small parts and 411 'obsolete' after a period of time. We used to call it "planned obsolescence", and made sure not to
throw out the older parts catalogs as new ones were issued, for answers exactly like yours. Nowadays the Internet
would be the best source for information like that... just be very specific in your search query.

Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
A lot of things have changed since that hub was made, but the ball bearings fit the same way as current-generation freehubs. The ball bearings rest in the bearing cup that's part of the freehub body, and the cone rides on the balls. That's it. No washers should be interfacing with your ball bearings in any way. If this washer just fits over the axle, it probably belongs between your cone and locknut.

Thanks guys,....that's where i put it,....over the axle on the side opposite the cassette as just an additional spacing washer. It couldn't have come off the cassette side as i never separated that cone race from it's locking nut. The washer in questionis only .020" thick, and there already was a much thicker spacing washer on that side. It must gave been stuck to the thicker washer and when i wiped it down didn't notice the 2nd thin washer,....which stuck to the paper towel and went immediately unnoticed.

Anyway,.....it seemes to be sorted now.

I went for a 5 mile ride tonight to grab a bite,.....and noticed a much quieter freewheel pawl clicking than before i re-greased the wheel bearings. I suspect when i get the 2nd chain whip to remove the cassette (and then the freewheel) on a rainy day,.....i'll find some of the grease got up in there and is reducing the pawl action sound. Not as worried now with some clicking!

Shimano's action to remove any useful information on older componant groups is not what i expect of a company trying to build a customer base. It sure turns me off,.....with the lack of parts support also. (seals and such)

In my case my 1987 Schwinn Cimarron had less than 200 miles on it when it went into storage,....and then got back out this year. Certainly not about to go out and replace all the componants that are just about new. (and i paid over $750 back then with rear rack, rear panniers, fenders, and bottle cage.

.....and when they do wear out or need parts i can't find, guess i'll be looking for other brands to replace componants with who maintain customer support in at least the minimal way,.....keeping SCHEMATICS online!

geeze...........

cheers,
Joe T

Last edited by joejeweler; 06-25-12 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 06-26-12, 12:37 AM
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.....and when they do wear out or need parts i can't find, guess i'll be looking for other brands to replace componants with who maintain customer support in at least the minimal way,.....keeping SCHEMATICS online!
You want online schematics for parts over 20 years old? In 1987, did Shimano even have a website? Since your old hub is serviced in the same fashion as most of Shimano's present-day rear freehubs, you don't really need model-specific diagrams anyway.

Certainly not about to go out and replace all the componants that are just about new.
You'll encounter some challenges if/when you wear out a cassette, since they've been out of production for decades.
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Old 06-26-12, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
You want online schematics for parts over 20 years old? In 1987, did Shimano even have a website? Since your old hub is serviced in the same fashion as most of Shimano's present-day rear freehubs, you don't really need model-specific diagrams anyway.



You'll encounter some challenges if/when you wear out a cassette, since they've been out of production for decades.
Come on,....as was already pointed out in this thread,....Shimano HAD dealer service info and parts breakdowns for the early component groups,......and that's why the poster saved his. (knowing Shimano's habit of deleting such info)

Certainly is it too much to expect Shimano to give even a minimal support to the customers who supported THEM on their first entries into supplying serious MTB parts?

What's it take to scan some of those documents and post them on their site????

Nope,.....just another example of sell now, and forget about those that got you here later!

Replacing a worn out cassette or the biopace chain rings when the time comes is REALLY going to pi$$ me off, considering what i've seen on ebay!
(3X-6X the new cost of similar but current production items)

Last edited by joejeweler; 06-26-12 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 06-27-12, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by joejeweler View Post
Come on,....as was already pointed out in this thread,....Shimano HAD dealer service info and parts breakdowns for the early component groups,......and that's why the poster saved his. (knowing Shimano's habit of deleting such info)
I'll give you a handy tip: go to Google and search for site:shimano.com ev [part number]. If Shimano ever had the part's Exploded View posted, you will probably find it this way as a PDF file. Substitute si for ev and you'll get the Service Instructions.

Certainly is it too much to expect Shimano to give even a minimal support to the customers who supported THEM on their first entries into supplying serious MTB parts?

What's it take to scan some of those documents and post them on their site????

Nope,.....just another example of sell now, and forget about those that got you here later!

Replacing a worn out cassette or the biopace chain rings when the time comes is REALLY going to pi$$ me off, considering what i've seen on ebay!
(3X-6X the new cost of similar but current production items)
I think if you look around, you'll find Shimano has more of their tech documentation online than any of their competitors. So if you're not satisfied with Shimano's approach, it's unlikely you'll be happy with any alternatives either. When the time does come to replace drivetrain parts, I'd suggest the Salsa aluminum chainrings (nice 7075 aluminum) and changing the rear hub to a 7-speed Hyperglide setup, then tracking down a set of 7sp XT or Deore thumbshifters (or at least the right side). Then you'll be on a sustainable platform.
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Old 06-28-12, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
I'll give you a handy tip: go to Google and search for site:shimano.com ev [part number]. If Shimano ever had the part's Exploded View posted, you will probably find it this way as a PDF file. Substitute si for ev and you'll get the Service Instructions.



I think if you look around, you'll find Shimano has more of their tech documentation online than any of their competitors. So if you're not satisfied with Shimano's approach, it's unlikely you'll be happy with any alternatives either. When the time does come to replace drivetrain parts, I'd suggest the Salsa aluminum chainrings (nice 7075 aluminum) and changing the rear hub to a 7-speed Hyperglide setup, then tracking down a set of 7sp XT or Deore thumbshifters (or at least the right side). Then you'll be on a sustainable platform.
Thanks for the tips for part substitutions and future running as parts wear out,.....

Not sure how useful the link will be IF you don't know the part number you're looking for??? But i'll work on it and see.

.....but i can't tell you how frustrating it was to go to the manufacturer's website and see all the wonderfully clear and detailed schematics of much of their line,.......and NOT find the one you need!
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Old 06-28-12, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by joejeweler View Post
Come on,....as was already pointed out in this thread,....Shimano HAD dealer service info and parts breakdowns for the early component groups,......and that's why the poster saved his. (knowing Shimano's habit of deleting such info)

Certainly is it too much to expect Shimano to give even a minimal support to the customers who supported THEM on their first entries into supplying serious MTB parts?

What's it take to scan some of those documents and post them on their site????

Nope,.....just another example of sell now, and forget about those that got you here later!

Replacing a worn out cassette or the biopace chain rings when the time comes is REALLY going to pi$$ me off, considering what i've seen on ebay!
(3X-6X the new cost of similar but current production items)
Joe,

I sympathize with you about Shimalaysia not keeping older schematics and exploded parts drawings. I don't know if Shimanopore makes their current Parts catalogs available as a .pdf file or on CD, or if you have to go to the website to pull them up.

I can tell you this, though... in the days of paper Appendixes and Supplements, my Shimano Small Parts Catalog/ Exploded Parts Drawings Reference took up two full 3" 3 ring binders, and those encompassed dates from 1980-1994 only! I had started on the third 3 ring binder for 1995-2000 when I left the business.

BioPace chain rings are spendy on the Bay because they fall under the 'C & V' moniker, so they command premium $$. Keep an eye out in your area for older creampuff MTB's that their owners may be letting go cheaply; that would be a good starting point for finding BioPace chain rings in fair to good condition. I'm trying to scrape them up as fast as I can locate them, too!

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