phantomcow2

Okay well i got my Park tensiometer in the mail today, thats all nice and dandy. I have no idea what tension to shoot for here, how do i find out?

mtbikerinpa

Does Park list anything on thier site?
If not, I would check:
LBS (if they use one)
Sheldon Brown's database
Wheelsmith (might have it available)

There should be smoe others out there. I work by feel and soud usually so I don't have the numbers. I have a case of tool envy though.

phantomcow2

I dont think park has any database. I will check around at the sites you said though. Actually you know i got htis tool for 49.99 on ebay.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...125493054&rd=1
my LBS lets me use their wheelsmith tensiometer at no charge but i want to have one of my own, plus some friends are wanting me to build them some wheels for a fee so i thought it was 50 dollars well spent. I retensioned all my wheels and you know the thing works well. I was actually fairly even all the way around by feeling the spokes and whatnot but still, this is way cooler

TandemGeek

Should be a table in the box that lists appropriate tension for a variety of different spoke brands / sizes.

don d.

If you can gain access to a Barnett's Manual, it will explain in depth how to use that tool.

The standard tension settings would be between 80kgf and 120 kgf for a properly tensioned wheel. Err towards the low side for rims without steel spoke hole ferrules.

Remember the rear spokes will have higher kgf readings on the cassette side than on the non-cassette side, but you should try to get the spokes on both sides within the standard range of kgf readings.

Tension balancing a wheel is really the ideal, but is to involved to explain here. Still, try to get all the spokes on one side of the wheel within +-10% of the average kgf readings for the entire side. On the front, all the spokes should be within +-10% of the average kgf reading for the entire wheel. The average is the sum of all the kgf readings for all spokes divided by the the number of spokes.

If you pick that tool up to use it, you should also have a paper and pencil handy to record all your measurements and a system for numbering the spokes so you can readily refer to a particular spoke, eg the first spoke past the spoke hole is #1, and so on around the rim. If you remove the wheel from the stand, always return it with the sides positioned as they were before you removed it. The easy way to do this is to always have the logo on the hub facing you so it reads from left to right.

I would also suggest that you purchase a black park spoke wrench and a green park spoke wrench. The black one will come in handy when the spoke nipples are tight enough to potentially round off with the green wrench. These two wrenches will work on most spoke nipples. A less expensive round multi spoke wrench tool will suffice for cheaper wheels.

I'm assuming you already have a dishing gauge, as you cannot correctly build a wheel without one.

When you can put all the spokes into a hub and lace the wheel from the spoke hole all the way around the rim, both sides simultaneously, each hole in sequence. you'll be building wheels.

Cheers.

phantomcow2

Well yea i have a truing stand/dishing guage and a park green spoke wrench. I might buy the black also. My rims currently do have steel eyelets so i am fairly confident in that, but im going to try not to push over 90. Generally when i work i always use the valve hole as reference, like all of the spokes on the drive side 1/4 turn and i start at the valve hole and work around it. That seems to work out quite well. thanks for a long response

Maelstrom 

Moved where it should get you a tonne of responses

cascade168

Correct. And, there should be a spoke gauge attached to the table. And, user instructions. Gauge the spokes and check the table for the maximum tension for the spokes you have. If you have butted spokes you use the tension for the smallest gauge. The table also has tensions for aero spokes.

So, assuming you have the table, the gauge, and the user instructions, what exactly is your question?

If they are missing, you should contact your supplier, or Park, and get them. Without, you are flying blind as the tensiometer is useless without the table. The table and user instructions are available on this page:

https://www.parktool.com/repair_help/tm_1.shtml

If you did not get a spoke gauge, you can just measure with a caliper and derive it. I don't know for sure, but I'd venture a guess that Sheldon Brown has spoke tables. Take 15 seconds and search for them like I did for your table.

As don d. pointed out, Barnett's has an excellent section on spoke tensioning. Initial tensioning is easy.
Doing a good job on relative tensioning takes patience and practice, but is the key to a well built wheel.
Take your time and don't be afraid to back up a few steps if you must. True, tension, and dish until they are all good. When I do my own, I am not happy until they are perfect.

phantomcow2

Yes park includes a little chart. That's just a conversion from the numbers on the tensiometer itself to kpg. It does not tell me the ideal tension.

phantomcow2

and it says contact rim manufacture but i have had bad luck with that.

Derailed

I'm in the same boat as you: I have the Park tensionometer, but have a hard time finding the correct spoke tension. I've read that you want to use the highest tension that your components can safely handle, and that the weakest link is the rim. Therefore, the rim manufacturer should provide the correct tension.

That said, I use Mavic MA3 rims, and have had no luck finding recommended tensions from them. I haven't tried to call or write them... perhaps they'd be more helpful in response to a direct contact?

The Park instructions found on the link above (https://www.parktool.com/repair_help/tm_1.shtml) are great, but their table for spoke tensions is far from complete. For example, the MA3 (a very common rim) is not listed.

Good luck, please post back if you find a good resource somewhere with a complete list of recommended tensions.

cascade168

Talk about high maintenance ..... I am beginning to see sydney's slant on the world.
You make a compelling case for his attitude.

That aside, you want the spokes as tight as you can get them without collapsing the wheel. Any decent rim should withstand 130 (it's kgf, BTW). If you get to the point where the rim begins to buckle, back off. Take the time to read:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

and, when you finish that, take some more time and google the rim manufacturer and you may (most likely) find you can go higher than 130.

FOG

Why not use your cable tensiometer if you are an A&P?

Derailed

How sure are you of what you are saying regarding "any decent rim should handle 130 kgf"? That is the high end of the range for most rims (see the link above). Seems to me that it would be silly to apply tension 50% greater than what the manufacturer of your rim recommends. Maybe the rim won't buckle immediately, but instead you may find that you develop stress cracks.

I can't speak for the original poster, but I'm just looking for a rough guidline for my rims (e.g. 80 kgf vs 120 kgf); it gives an easy mark to shoot for... I wouldn't try to be dead on, but if you're going to use a tensionometer you might as well follow the manufacturer's advice and be reasonably close.

If you want to be a minimalist and build wheels using your forks, a spoke wrench and screwdriver that's fine... but if someone wants to use a tensionometer, what is so offensive about wanting some guidlines (when the instructions that come with the tool specify that you should contact the manufacturer for recommended tension)?

phantomcow2

I read sheldron browns stuff and all. I built my wheels so i did some research here. Its just my first time owning a tensiometer. I don't believe i will go as high as 130, that is pretty high and i do know that an overtensioned spoke will put abormal stress on the rim, which i would rather avoid.

Rev.Chuck

I shoot for around 110, I like em on the tight side but when you get it to high the rims tend to crack prematurely(Mavic Reflex, needs it to be on the low side 90-100, for instance) If you want to get some wrenches for troublesome spokes that might round off get the Spokeys, they grab on three sides and have a guide track to keep the wrench square to the spoke. If you put black dots on the red one it looks like a Ladybug.

cascade168

I have rims that cost me $9.95 (X404 - a very common 27" replacement rim) and I would say these are very low end aluminum extruded rims. They have several thousand miles after tensioning to 130. They are still true, not failed, and no stress cracks. I'd say my statement is well on the safe side. If you look at the chart that comes with the TM-1 most of the maximum spoke tensions go up to around 170 KgF, or more. I'd guess I have built about a hundred wheels. I tension all my spokes to 130 and have never had a failure or complaint from the people I have built them for. So, if you like a radially "soft" wheel and pinch flats and more truing (more often), by all means, go for it. The "high end of the range", as you put it, is what any good wheelbuilder should be shooting for. The "high end" is a lot more work and the "low end" is the easy to get it done quickly.

I would not recommend high tensioning with steel rims. But, who would bother building a new wheel with a steel rim these days?