DCB0

Sauce be upon him

ThatChap

i didn't feel touched by His noodly appendage unfortunately. A prior transgression has forbade me from joining His church of Truth and Love. I simply must live with worship from afar. [PBUH]

Kimmo 

Oh yeah, this:

ThatChap

My ability to make assumptions exceeds even my own wildest fantasies. This sort of thing happened twice before but the difference was that the cartridge casing had cracked along a join and would subsequently wobble on the pedal stroke tapping the chamber. This time, the cartridge seems fine externally, but I cannot apply the same pressure with my fingers. If the new unit solves the problem then I'll put it down to minced bearings. I'll report back.

Regarding the crank arms, there are three factors that led to my woe:

1. Suntour components in this price band (cheap) are poor quality. The threads on the crank arms are shallow compared to a Shimano assembly I scrutinized alongside last week. I was able to take my crank extractor tool and screw it in fully with my fingers. The same tool on my completely clean, untouched (at the time) threads simply did not engage, seconded by a puzzled mechanic in the shop. I thought that the Shimano threads were more forgiving of the tool but no, the mechanic's extractor also could not engage (and could with the Shimano). Hence my 'incompatibility' thoughts.

2. I suppose I ride the bike quite hard. I have a fairly moderate hour and a half daily commute up a few fairly long, steep hills. This must put quite a bit of pressure on the spindle. Cumulatively, I can imagine this will make it harder to separate the different metals.

3. Partly owing to the shallow crank threads, the (possibly) shallow lead-in threads on the tool and the slightly curved crank, it was difficult to line up the axial plane of the tool with the spindle's axis. (Wouldn't a guide shaft be great.)

The new tool definitely seems to have taller, sharper, harder threads. Again, 'harder' is a hunch as the metal is black. If I can find the old tool, I'll post a pic of each side-by-side.

Kimmo 

I have a feeling it would be the other way around; enough force on the joint would eventually deform the aluminium, and the cranks would loosen.

Don't you know the trick to avoid cross-threading? Hold the nut/bolt/whatever against whatever you're screwing it into/onto, and unscrew until you feel the ends of the threads click past each other, taking more care to align it the larger the diameter (it usually needs to be an inch or two before you have to look).

ThatChap

On a previous bike, I rode it for a few weeks then removed the crank arm. Rode for a few months - it was harder. Rode for another few months, I had to cut the cranks off.

Yes, I could just about feel a faint click when reversing the direction of the crank extractor. I gingerly screwed it in but when it requires a spanner, things get hairy.

However, I have now replaced the cartridge. In doing so, I have completely destroyed the right crank arms threads - they're baby's bum smooth. The next time I need to remove it, I will need to cut it off. If I get another 6 months out of it, I'll happily replace it with something better - I'm thinking Shimano Octalink which seems like a more sensible technology. If they still sold cotter pinned arms I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

The new crank makes a big difference, there was a problem with the bearings in the old one I suppose. There is still some drumming from the freewheel. I'll need to replace the 17 tooth BMX-style freewheel. Until I buy something like this (amazingly cheap), I will go full ****** i.e. I've flipped the back wheel to the fixed cog. I've got a few steep hills on my run so this may well kill me. I'll leave this thread open to further document my escapades with the freewheel.

Also, there is a bit of slack in the chain which is noticeable using a fixed cog. Adjusting the rear horizontal drop-out screws scares me, as it's difficult to judge the 'trueness' of the wheel. I'm wondering if I should leave it as is for a few days before I receive the new freewheel or tighten the chain now.

sk0tt

If GT85 is like WD40, you need to use grease in the bearings instead.

Amesja

A shimano un54 is like $20. Just dump in a new one and be done with it.

ThatChap

No, GT85 is nothing like WD40. Never, ever use WD40 on a bike.

Amesja

WD-40 has its uses. It works well driving water away or cleaning gunk off of the frame. It's great for cleaning out the electrical connections in an old-school headlight and getting the connections working again. It's also a good solvent to get sticker goo off after using a hair-dryer to peel them up initially. It also is a good way to get off old stuck grips after peeling them back just enough with a very small screwdriver so you can get the red straw deep inside there. Tri-flow works ok for some of this but is about 4x as expensive.

As long as you remember that WD-40 isn't an oil and remember that it is a good solvent/cleaner that is fairly cheap and easy to focus at small spots you are OK.

But it is not an oil/lubricant.

ThatChap

So now I've bought a freewheel from Evans for £4.99 along with some lithium grease which I will slather it with. The chap in the shop said I should go for the £29.99 because it has 4 notches in it for removal, this one only has two. As this sounds like a scam by the manufacturers, I'll chance it. As I have a couple of hills on my route, fixed gear is not for me so I've ordered what I think/hope is a compatible removal tool for the broken 4 notcher from Amazon for £8 all-in. I got a puncture yesterday so that's another £4.99 gone - See how the costs clock up? Anyway, I'm hoping this isn't going to be another ordeal. I'm recording this for posterity.

Amesja

Costs? You've yet to fill an auto tank with fuel for a week of driving with those "costs." IMHO You've not added up any costs as of yet.

Go out to the pub for fish & chips plus beers one fewer time this week and you are square.

I would have made a deal with the shopie chap you bought the FW from to throw in the removal of the old fixed cog plus a dab of grease to spin on the new FW. Seems like you'll only ever use the new tool to remove the broken fixed cog once and never need it again -unless you intend to get more seriously into wrenching on other bikes. Plus you don't really need a tool to remove a fixed gear cog if there isn't a lockring -just ROTOFIX the damn thing off. Often one can just tap off the old lockring with a hammer and an old sacrificial screwdriver if it hasn't been locktighted on (you'll probably ruin the lockring but who cares?) -but I hesitate to even mention that given your past history...

ThatChap

I want to negotiate myself into a position where I can remove/fix/replace everything myself without jelly-knee fear. I want to completely remove the need for hammers.

I Googled 'Rotafix method' and found this. Is this a spoof or do people really speak like this? I'm happy to buy the proper tools needed to replace the consumables. I'm becoming more willing to upgrade to better components to dodge the seemingly necessary suffering that comes with older technologies (I'm looking at you, square taper).

AlphaDogg

Square taper is a relatively new technology. Would you prefer cottered cranks? I don't think it's feasible to put octolink, isis or hollow tech 2 cranks on a fixie/single speed. It seems your square taper crank was defective and had softer than normal threads. Don't let this experience ruin your opinion of a perfectly good technology.

FBinNY 

I guess you could say it's relatively new at about 50 years, not quite half the time that modern safety bikes existed.

But that's not to put it down. All my BBs are still square taper, and in 45+ years and over 100k riding I've never worn out or replaced a BB (oldest has 50k miles). I don't know many people riding better more modern stuff who could say the same thing. I will grant that the newer stuff is lighter, but new, old or whatever, it's hard to knock the sq.taper cotterless crank system.

cnnrmccloskey

What?

Amesja

ISIS and Octolink are no real improvement on Square-Taper. Just because they are "newer" doesn't make them better. In fact, there are serious issues with them that caused the manufactures to quickly move onto modern 2-piece cranks. They were an "interim technology" that fits between the end of internal bearing BB's and external. Anyhow, the extraction method for ISIS and Octo is exactly the same as ST anyhow -even the tool is the same usually. Most good tools do all of these types, ST/Octo/ISIS.

The issue was either a damaged or very cheap crankset with bad threads or ham-handedness in threading the tool in on the part of the operator. I've got my own theories...

I've taken off a hundred cranks using such an extractor and never had an issue even remotely like yours. I've taken off at least as many cottered cranks and rarely had an issue with them unless they were extremely worn. Some of them when allowed to get really loose, can be a bear to exract the cotter once it has had a chance to wear and pinch.

It's mostly the tools, and partly knowing how to use them (especially knowing when to use which tool where.)

cnnrmccloskey

Was this directed to me?
I'm not saying any of the splined interfaces are superior to square taper but it is completely feasible to use any of the interfaces on a fixed gear or single speed cycle, Dura ace and Sram Omnium track cranks are two of the top choices available for track racing and both have moved past square taper I realize Omniums are two piece but Dura Ace still uses octalink (in fact I run 7700 cranks on my fixed gear and they work great)

Amesja

It was directed at the OP, who seems to think that his limited (and bad) experience with ST somehow means that it is a "flawed design."

Anything can be used for single-speed/fixed -even cottered although I'd not advise it on fixed unless the person knew what they were doing installing cottered cranks and had a proper press.

As for Ocosuck -Shimano hasnt fully given up on it like everyone else gave up on ISIS. But I feel that the nails are driven pretty far in the coffin. 2-piece is the way of the future and in not too long of a time octo will be abandoned.

PalmettoUpstate 

I have a 1974 Raleigh LTD-3 that apparently needs a new bottom bracket. Would a UN54 work on that bike and, if so, which size?

Amesja

No. Shimano doesn't make cartridges in 26tpi (or cottered cranks for that matter.) Your best bet is to rebuild the BB you have with new balls and grease.

AlphaDogg

You said you wanted to upgrade away from your current square taper, and I stated that I don't think it's worth it/cost effective to upgrade to a different technology (though isis/octolink rely on the same compression concept, and hollowtech 2 is really the only thing that eliminates the need for threaded crank pullers)

Amesja

+1

Octo an ISIS are really no different than Square-taper really other than the shape. Maybe a little better at grabbing the crank, so it doesn't need to be very tapered at all. But it's basically the same concept. The issue the OP is having with the threads would still be there. The crank remover works the same way and is really the same crank remover 95% of the time anyhow. I remove the ISIS cranks on my Competition using the same crank remover that I have pulled off a hundred other square-taper cranks. And they are a tiny portable removal tool too.

The Park CWP-7C Compact crank removal tool.


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[h=1]Park Tool Compact Crank Puller[/h]by Park Tool
4.8 out of 5 stars See all reviews (28 customer reviews) |




Park Tool crank pullers can easily remove even the tightest cranks.

• Features a rotating tip pressed into each end of the tool (11.3mm and 16.3mm) so it will remove both square taper and splined (ISIS Drive, Octalink) crank arms
• Made for the 22 x 1mm threading in the common cranks
• Rotating tips pressed into each end of the tool (11.3mm and 16.3mm) to remove both square and splined crank arms

PalmettoUpstate 

I will do that then.

I already own the Park Compact Crank tool and I am building my bicycle-specific tool kit as I go. What other tools will I need to service the crank on the old Raleighs?

BTW, reading your posts on other threads and this one; here are a couple of things you might want to look at; the Advance Auto Parts chain has this and it's great for cleaning delicate stuff and leaving - as best I can tell - ZERO residue:
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...7CGRP2030C____

And your old Camry might like what you find here: https://pure-gas.org/

Cheers!

PalmettoUpstate 

Would the Whitworth set shown on this page do the job or should I just shop around for loose ball bearings? Keep in mind that I've never been into one of these but I did go into a crank or two when I was a young chap and before the Inevitable Distractions ;^)

https://www.yellowjersey.org/eastbits.html