Ready to surrender patching tubes
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There are several brands of glueless patches. As I posted I have never had even one failure with Park glueless patches. BTW I do baby powder the inside of my tires, this lets the tube slide and seat with no sticking and stresses. Also when I inflate the tube again I pump to half pressure, release the air down and then pump to full pressur.
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There are several brands of glueless patches. As I posted I have never had even one failure with Park glueless patches. BTW I do baby powder the inside of my tires, this lets the tube slide and seat with no sticking and stresses. Also when I inflate the tube again I pump to half pressure, release the air down and then pump to full pressur.
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I use a heat gun. Get the tube hot before applying glue, heat up the patch before "stitching" it. Seems to help a lot.
Don in Austin
Don in Austin
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As I have posted, the Park glueless patches worked great for me. The problem with the old fashioned glue and patch kits is that after the tube has been opened once the glue turns hard and useless.
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I haven't had that problem unless either the tube or the cap has a small crack in it. To make the cap have a more air tight seal I let a bit of the glue get on the threads of the tube before resealing it. Usually there's still plenty of glue left after the patches are used up so I put the old tube in the next patch kit for redundancy.
#31
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Ok, here are results from my latest efforts with two tubes -- one of which was a recent puncture, one was long ago patched and had been in saddlebag fro some time to serve as spare for road repair. Water test revealed both had small leaks around edges of patches.
Effort 1; done after I read FBinNY stitching advise but before some other posts.
-- Tube 1: NonRema patch, REMA vulc fluid; waited until fluid was no longer shiney but certainly not to the degree that cycocommute suggested; stitched the bejesus out of it like FBinNY suggested. FAIL
-- Tube 2: Rema Tiptop patch, otherwise same as above. FAIL
Efforts 2: Rema Tiptop patches on both; wait wait wait wait wait; stitch stitch stitch stitch....VICTORY.
One note. I was very surprised that tube 2 actually worked, because it turned out I had two holes. In testing the previous patch, I discovered that not only was there a leak around the patch itself but there was a second very slight nick about 1/2cm off the edge of the patch. It was so slight that once old patch was removed and air escaped main hole, I coudn't even tell it was there since most of the air was escaping through the bigger hole (I suspect that the glass that caused the puncture also created the nick as the tire deflated after original flat and tube shifted position slightly in relation to the tire). But with patch on, bubbles were escaping from the edge of one side of patch and through this little nick on the other. Rather than using two round patches, I used one of the long rectangualr ones; expecting, frankly, that, given my incompetance with samll patches, I would be utterly incapable of getting the larger patch to stick. But the wait alot/stitch alot method worked.
So thanks all for the advise, particulalrly cycocommute and FBinNY
(by the way, glueless patches have worked great in a pinch for me but always eventually come unstuck for me; and dont even bother of its wet outside).
Effort 1; done after I read FBinNY stitching advise but before some other posts.
-- Tube 1: NonRema patch, REMA vulc fluid; waited until fluid was no longer shiney but certainly not to the degree that cycocommute suggested; stitched the bejesus out of it like FBinNY suggested. FAIL
-- Tube 2: Rema Tiptop patch, otherwise same as above. FAIL
Efforts 2: Rema Tiptop patches on both; wait wait wait wait wait; stitch stitch stitch stitch....VICTORY.
One note. I was very surprised that tube 2 actually worked, because it turned out I had two holes. In testing the previous patch, I discovered that not only was there a leak around the patch itself but there was a second very slight nick about 1/2cm off the edge of the patch. It was so slight that once old patch was removed and air escaped main hole, I coudn't even tell it was there since most of the air was escaping through the bigger hole (I suspect that the glass that caused the puncture also created the nick as the tire deflated after original flat and tube shifted position slightly in relation to the tire). But with patch on, bubbles were escaping from the edge of one side of patch and through this little nick on the other. Rather than using two round patches, I used one of the long rectangualr ones; expecting, frankly, that, given my incompetance with samll patches, I would be utterly incapable of getting the larger patch to stick. But the wait alot/stitch alot method worked.
So thanks all for the advise, particulalrly cycocommute and FBinNY
(by the way, glueless patches have worked great in a pinch for me but always eventually come unstuck for me; and dont even bother of its wet outside).
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I don't know why, I had recently started having major problems patching tubes myself but have no recollection of such problems years ago. Always was able to get it right the first time.
I searched through the old threads here (plenty to go through) and found one, https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-rubber-cement, in which Slime Rubber Cement, found at Auto Zone among other places, was recommended.
I gave this a try and found that it worked better with the Rema patches than the glue that came with the patches.
Can there be something different about the tire tubes being manufactured today compared to those of years past?
Maybe the mold release is now embedded deeper into the surface of the tubes than in the past?
I can't figure it out.
I searched through the old threads here (plenty to go through) and found one, https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-rubber-cement, in which Slime Rubber Cement, found at Auto Zone among other places, was recommended.
I gave this a try and found that it worked better with the Rema patches than the glue that came with the patches.
Can there be something different about the tire tubes being manufactured today compared to those of years past?
Maybe the mold release is now embedded deeper into the surface of the tubes than in the past?
I can't figure it out.
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I reckon you should get someone to show you how they apply patches. You must be doing something wrong.
I just use the cheap $3.50 repair kits and they are perfectly reliable. Unlike every glueless patch I've ever tried... (I do like them for emergency "good enough to get me home" fixes).
I just use the cheap $3.50 repair kits and they are perfectly reliable. Unlike every glueless patch I've ever tried... (I do like them for emergency "good enough to get me home" fixes).
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I thought that i might add my 2 pence, as others have said ,if you can carry a spare and patch when y'all get home. When i run in to this i usually just scuff like crazy, then apply fluid and then set thw fluid afire( i know that many will be agast at this, but it works for me) then the patch, stich like mad, then call it a night
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If you properly clean the tube, and use a Rema patch kit, the patch isn't ever going to come off or leak.
I use a can of Rema BL-8 for Road Tubeless patching but it's also good for tubes.
Here's a tube I patched; bottom patch is a standard Rema patch from the bike patch kit. Top patch is a Park patch put on with the blue Rema BL-8 vulcanizing fluid. You can see that both of them are practically welded to the tube, never to come off.
I use a can of Rema BL-8 for Road Tubeless patching but it's also good for tubes.
Here's a tube I patched; bottom patch is a standard Rema patch from the bike patch kit. Top patch is a Park patch put on with the blue Rema BL-8 vulcanizing fluid. You can see that both of them are practically welded to the tube, never to come off.
#36
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I thought that i might add my 2 pence, as others have said ,if you can carry a spare and patch when y'all get home. When i run in to this i usually just scuff like crazy, then apply fluid and then set thw fluid afire( i know that many will be agast at this, but it works for me) then the patch, stich like mad, then call it a night
#37
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If you properly clean the tube, and use a Rema patch kit, the patch isn't ever going to come off or leak.
I use a can of Rema BL-8 for Road Tubeless patching but it's also good for tubes.
Here's a tube I patched; bottom patch is a standard Rema patch from the bike patch kit. Top patch is a Park patch put on with the blue Rema BL-8 vulcanizing fluid. You can see that both of them are practically welded to the tube, never to come off.
I use a can of Rema BL-8 for Road Tubeless patching but it's also good for tubes.
Here's a tube I patched; bottom patch is a standard Rema patch from the bike patch kit. Top patch is a Park patch put on with the blue Rema BL-8 vulcanizing fluid. You can see that both of them are practically welded to the tube, never to come off.
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I haven't had that problem unless either the tube or the cap has a small crack in it. To make the cap have a more air tight seal I let a bit of the glue get on the threads of the tube before resealing it. Usually there's still plenty of glue left after the patches are used up so I put the old tube in the next patch kit for redundancy.
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Last edited by cyccommute; 09-17-12 at 06:44 AM.
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This is really good advice. I have used a wooden roller intended for sealing wallpaper seams. And the comment about Rema is right on too, execpt it is a catch-22. Sure you should use Rema, but getting the cellophane off causes me to spoil more patch applications than I can count. Pulling off the cellophane too early or too roughly is a prime cause of a poor seal; it undoes all you hard work.
Having said all that about technique, I am going to go out on a limb and risk some ridicule. It is wasteful I know and not very bike-macho, but if you can afford to toss the tube, just do it. The is no glory in always worrying about your tubes leaking or failing on a ride due to a bad patch. For $4-6 on sale, after riding road bikes for over 30 years, I just don't need the aggravation any more. If you can't afford it, I certainly do understand. Been there too. In that case all this other advice is right on, but you will be happier if you can just blow it off. What I do is carry the glueless patches for an emergency just to get me home in case I really screw up and go through my couple of spare tubes (like not checking for sharp objects in the tire casing). When I get the patched tube home, it goes into the wastebasket. Done and done.
Robert
Having said all that about technique, I am going to go out on a limb and risk some ridicule. It is wasteful I know and not very bike-macho, but if you can afford to toss the tube, just do it. The is no glory in always worrying about your tubes leaking or failing on a ride due to a bad patch. For $4-6 on sale, after riding road bikes for over 30 years, I just don't need the aggravation any more. If you can't afford it, I certainly do understand. Been there too. In that case all this other advice is right on, but you will be happier if you can just blow it off. What I do is carry the glueless patches for an emergency just to get me home in case I really screw up and go through my couple of spare tubes (like not checking for sharp objects in the tire casing). When I get the patched tube home, it goes into the wastebasket. Done and done.
Robert
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Tubes may be cheap but they aren't free. I live where goatheads are everywhere...it's harvest season right now...so I get a lot of flats. There is a limit to where I won't patch any more but it's usually above 20 and less then 50 punctures. I usually find the 'this is stupid point' somewhere around 30 patches. Now do the math. That between $120 and $180 dollars for tubes if I were to replace them with $4-$6 tubes.
But I have three different wheel sizes in my garage and each one has several tubes that I use...patch at home/replace on the road. For each wheel size I have at least 6 tubes stashed in various places and with various numbers of patches. Let's say I average 15 patches per tube. If I replaced on every puncture, I have between $1080 and $1620 invested in tubes That's a chuck of change! And, to be honest, I have to carry a patch kit on every ride anyway. All it take is one more puncture than you have tubes to be stuck. I've been on rides where the aggregate number of punctures exceeded 100...I stopped counting my own when I hit 63 and that was only after carrying the bike out of a canyon after I got home.
But I have three different wheel sizes in my garage and each one has several tubes that I use...patch at home/replace on the road. For each wheel size I have at least 6 tubes stashed in various places and with various numbers of patches. Let's say I average 15 patches per tube. If I replaced on every puncture, I have between $1080 and $1620 invested in tubes That's a chuck of change! And, to be honest, I have to carry a patch kit on every ride anyway. All it take is one more puncture than you have tubes to be stuck. I've been on rides where the aggregate number of punctures exceeded 100...I stopped counting my own when I hit 63 and that was only after carrying the bike out of a canyon after I got home.
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stitching sounds interesting. my first choice is always to replace with a new tube. I always feel lucky when I successfully patch a tube in the field. I always chuck it though when I get home, and pop in a new one.
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Interesting. I've used the Park GP-2 (glue-less) patch kit with zero adverse effects. My goal is to always make sure that I never put the patch over a seam in the tube; it leaks that way. Once I apply it to the tube, I massage it for a minute or so to make sure it sticks really well. I think I had a tube with 3 or 4 of these patches on it at one point.
#45
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Cyccommute, Have you tried tubeless for your mt biking? Something worth looking into. They work great for thorns here in the Northeast. I know goatheads are nastier.
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I've been on rides with people who have tubeless. They didn't fair any better and I've seen tires delaminate with surprising frequency. On one particularly tack burr (aka goatheads) infested ride, we had around 40 punctures between 4 riders. One had 27 by herself and her boyfriend with the tubeless had 10. My wife had 3 and I had none. I used tire liners and forgot to put one in my wife's front tire I'm also good at spotting fields of goatheads and steering around them. I used to tease the goathead collector until I did the ride the next year and the goathead gods smited me mightily. That's the ride where I stopped counting at 63. I was humbled.
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#47
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I apologize that I couldn't be arsed to read the whole thread - it may be that someone already advised the following: to avoid leaks during patching, a good vulcanizing is a must. And for a good vulcanizing, the surface must be clean. And that doesn't mean "it looks clean to me". As a matter of fact, I carry a little bottle (really tiny, 2 ml vial) of isopropanol. Ethanol will work just as well. With that isopropanol or ethanol I clean the surface of the tube after the buffing, and then apply the patch. Apply pressure for 30 seconds, and that's it.
Since I've followed this exact procedure from the very beginning of my tube patching days, the number of leaky patches that I've created is close to zero. 1, to be precise - that was on an extremely dirty 12" stroller (pram for you Brits) tire.
Since I've followed this exact procedure from the very beginning of my tube patching days, the number of leaky patches that I've created is close to zero. 1, to be precise - that was on an extremely dirty 12" stroller (pram for you Brits) tire.
One of the most important steps is to "stitch" the patch down. You can't do this with gentle finger pressure, you need intense local pressure to work the patch into the tube and make a proper bond. They make tire stitchers, which are basically wheels on a stick specifically for this job. You don't need to go out and buy one though. Anything that will let you massage the two together will work. I use the rounded end of a 6" adjustable wrench on a table top, using a rocking motion to do the job, you can improvise with anything, but take a minute and stitch the patch down, especially at the edges and you'll have better results.
BTW- if you use patches like Rema, you're also supposed to remove the cellophane on the outside after you've stitched the patch. The cellophane inhibits the curing process (according to Rema) and prevents good bonding.
BTW- there's also a bit of chemistry involved, and there are slightly different formulations of the butyl in tubes. IME- every once in a while you'll run into a mismatch that won't bond no matter how hard you try. In Germany, Rema offers patches of different material and glue for various types of tubes, but only one (the basic butyl) is sold here in the USA
BTW- if you use patches like Rema, you're also supposed to remove the cellophane on the outside after you've stitched the patch. The cellophane inhibits the curing process (according to Rema) and prevents good bonding.
BTW- there's also a bit of chemistry involved, and there are slightly different formulations of the butyl in tubes. IME- every once in a while you'll run into a mismatch that won't bond no matter how hard you try. In Germany, Rema offers patches of different material and glue for various types of tubes, but only one (the basic butyl) is sold here in the USA
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That certainly has me beat. I once pulled 24 goatheads out of the rear tire of our tandem but I had picked them up all at the same time so there was only one flat. But I sure wasn't going to start patching that tube.
I also remember one club ride where we used a short portion of the local MUP right when they were mowing the side of it and blowing the debris onto the trail. There were about 20 of us on the ride and we averaged a little over one flat/rider (a few escaped unscathed but even more had punctures in both tires).
I also remember one club ride where we used a short portion of the local MUP right when they were mowing the side of it and blowing the debris onto the trail. There were about 20 of us on the ride and we averaged a little over one flat/rider (a few escaped unscathed but even more had punctures in both tires).
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That certainly has me beat. I once pulled 24 goatheads out of the rear tire of our tandem but I had picked them up all at the same time so there was only one flat. But I sure wasn't going to start patching that tube.
I also remember one club ride where we used a short portion of the local MUP right when they were mowing the side of it and blowing the debris onto the trail. There were about 20 of us on the ride and we averaged a little over one flat/rider (a few escaped unscathed but even more had punctures in both tires).
I also remember one club ride where we used a short portion of the local MUP right when they were mowing the side of it and blowing the debris onto the trail. There were about 20 of us on the ride and we averaged a little over one flat/rider (a few escaped unscathed but even more had punctures in both tires).