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126mm hub w/ 5 spd in 120mm frame (is this okay?)

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126mm hub w/ 5 spd in 120mm frame (is this okay?)

Old 10-01-12, 09:56 AM
  #26  
Kimmo 
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Nope, it's interesting, all right.

If you turned up in a shop where they were more interested in bikes than money, the first thing someone would do is scope out your ride and notice all the weirdness. You'd earn a smile and a friendly chat and some kudos for all the customisation.

It's not 'hey, wow'... but it is, 'hey, cool'... a 'meh' is not a good sign.
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Old 10-01-12, 10:04 AM
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Take the wheel out. Put a piece of 3/8 inch threaded rod in the place of the axle. With two nuts on it. then turn the nuts so they move outward away from each other until you get 126mm of spread between the dropouts, measuring with a caliper. then you can put two straight edges like steel rulers with one on each dropout face and see that way to what extent they are not parallel. You are magnifying the misalignment this way assuming you can get straight edges flat on the faces. maybe you could use clamps to hold it. if you can get something like this set up, measure the distance between the straight edges near the dropouts, and again out near the ends, and see how different it is.

maybe you could use the rod and nuts to over stretch it and permanently bend it wider so it doesn't spring back to 120mm when you take the wheel out. Problem is you want the two chainstays to bend out an equal amount, 3mm each, and there is no reason to think that doing that would bend them equally. Probably only one would bend because it was weaker.

So why don't you want to remove some spacers and cut the axle, anyway?

Last edited by mike6024; 10-01-12 at 10:08 AM. Reason: add question
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Old 10-01-12, 10:07 AM
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Ask Sheldon.

https://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

https://sheldonbrown.com/forkend-alignment.html
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Old 10-01-12, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mike6024 View Post


So why don't you want to remove some spacers and cut the axle, anyway?
Then I would have to re-dish and that's more of a job than spreading the frame, it seems. And I'm less comfortable re-dishing ... and I want to be able to use the wheels later on a 126 frame.
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Old 10-01-12, 10:23 AM
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I'd re-dish for a wider OLD, but not for a narrower one unless the frame can't be tweaked (ally, carbon). The wider the OLD, the stronger the wheel.

Dishing is pretty easy; you just add or remove tension from the NDS evenly as necessary... if you can true a wheel, you can dish one.

Incidentally, if you had an old aluminium or carbon frame with a 126mm OLD, you can have a 8/9/10spd wheel with less dish than a normal 130mm OLD one, if you use an off-centre rim.
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Old 10-01-12, 10:29 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mike6024 View Post
Take the wheel out. Put a piece of 3/8 inch threaded rod in the place of the axle. With two nuts on it. then turn the nuts so they move outward away from each other until you get 126mm of spread between the dropouts, measuring with a caliper. then you can put two straight edges like steel rulers with one on each dropout face and see that way to what extent they are not parallel. You are magnifying the misalignment this way assuming you can get straight edges flat on the faces. maybe you could use clamps to hold it. if you can get something like this set up, measure the distance between the straight edges near the dropouts, and again out near the ends, and see how different it is.

maybe you could use the rod and nuts to over stretch it and permanently bend it wider so it doesn't spring back to 120mm when you take the wheel out. Problem is you want the two chainstays to bend out an equal amount, 3mm each, and there is no reason to think that doing that would bend them equally. Probably only one would bend because it was weaker.

So why don't you want to remove some spacers and cut the axle, anyway?
And how exactly are you ensuring the spread is even and symmetrically exercised from the center line of the frame?

=8-)
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Old 10-01-12, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Ask Sheldon.
When Sheldon says how to spread the chainstays he does not mention a need to re-bend the dropouts to be parallel, as far as I see. Does Sheldon consider that insignificant?

Yes he bends each chainstay separately, so you would be bending each 3mm. Then check it with the string so each are equally spread relative to the seat tube.

I say just leave it as is. Only have to pull a bit when mounting the wheel.
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Old 10-01-12, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mike6024 View Post
When Sheldon says how to spread the chainstays he does not mention a need to re-bend the dropouts to be parallel, as far as I see.
He calls em forkends. It was the second link you edited from my post when you quoted it.

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Old 10-01-12, 11:07 AM
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That cut axle alignment "tool" does not look to be very accurate. It would be difficult to get better than 1/2 degree with that and the crescent wrench as described. Not worth the trouble if what you are looking to correct is so small. At least IMO.

If you could clamp two long straight edges to the dropouts I think you could see a half degree misalignment easier because it would be magnified more.
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Old 10-01-12, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
0.5
That's about a mm at that length.
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Old 10-01-12, 11:37 AM
  #36  
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pstake, Honestly I wouldn't worry. There is much more clamping force from the QRs than the frame is delivering to the hub on it's own. The dropouts won't have changed angle enough to do any damage. If the tire is centered, keep on riding.

Brad
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Old 10-01-12, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
There is much more clamping force from the QRs than the frame is delivering to the hub on it's own.
That's totally beside the point.

The two issues here are, 1 - the hassle of jamming the wheel in every time,

And 2 - the non-parallel dropouts are forcing the spindle to bend when it's clamped in, causing premature and excessive wear on the bearings, particularly because they're cartridge type.
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Old 10-01-12, 12:38 PM
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I don't like the idea of spreading the dropouts with a 2 by 4 either. You are bending them separately, yes that is good. But what if you pull too hard and get 5mm? You only need 3mm per each side. If you don't pull hard enough on the 2 by 4 you get no bend at all and it just springs back to the original position.

Seems you could easily overshoot and screw it up. Because all you are looking for is 3mm and that is a small amount, and I would think difficult to do accurately.
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Old 10-01-12, 12:48 PM
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The OP seems to think it'll be easier than dishing a wheel.

I'd put them about on par. Competence required.
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Old 10-01-12, 03:26 PM
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Point taken. Maybe it's time for me to learn to re-dish.

I'd like to learn to spread the frame, too.

Either way, probably won't have a chance to do either until later this week and will try to document my progress and post pictures.

Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
The OP seems to think it'll be easier than dishing a wheel.

I'd put them about on par. Competence required.
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Old 10-01-12, 03:30 PM
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Like I said, it makes more sense IMO to spread the frame to accommodate a stronger wheel.

Just saying, both jobs require patience and attention to detail.
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Old 10-01-12, 03:35 PM
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Ya, plus spreading the frame makes more sense because most of the wheels available nowadays are 126 - 135.

Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Like I said, it makes more sense IMO to spread the frame to accommodate a stronger wheel.

Just saying, both jobs require patience and attention to detail.
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Old 10-01-12, 03:43 PM
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That too, but it's not much of a consideration for a lot of folks with old bikes; a new wheelset is usually quite an occasion.
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Old 10-02-12, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
That too, but it's not much of a consideration for a lot of folks with old bikes; a new wheelset is usually quite an occasion.
I'm pretty active with our local bike co-op and found a guy with a dropout alignment tool, who I'm bringing my bike to Thursday. Good news. I still plan to spread the frame myself, using an all thread.
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Old 10-10-12, 06:04 PM
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I just wanted to check back in here. I used a 3/8 all thread and corresponding nuts (four but two would have worked) in the configuration in this photo I took (ignore the mess please — thanks) ... and spread the frame from 120 to a little over 129. I went ahead and went over the 126 mark in case my next set of wheels is a set of 130mm. The frame stretched to about 150 before it started to "bend" permanently.

Then I took the frame to a local guy who has the tool and he aligned the rear dropouts as well as the fork, for $8. So all in all I spent about $12 to spread the frame and align the dropouts. The bike rides good and wheel slips in and out like butta.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and I hope this can help anyone else who stumbles upon it in the future.

Cheers,
Phil
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Old 10-10-12, 06:44 PM
  #46  
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Congratulations on what you accomplished so far. Glad you are happy!

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