126mm hub w/ 5 spd in 120mm frame (is this okay?)
10-01-12, 09:56 AM
#26
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Nope, it's interesting, all right.
If you turned up in a shop where they were more interested in bikes than money, the first thing someone would do is scope out your ride and notice all the weirdness. You'd earn a smile and a friendly chat and some kudos for all the customisation.
It's not 'hey, wow'... but it is, 'hey, cool'... a 'meh' is not a good sign.
If you turned up in a shop where they were more interested in bikes than money, the first thing someone would do is scope out your ride and notice all the weirdness. You'd earn a smile and a friendly chat and some kudos for all the customisation.
It's not 'hey, wow'... but it is, 'hey, cool'... a 'meh' is not a good sign.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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10-01-12, 10:04 AM
#27
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Take the wheel out. Put a piece of 3/8 inch threaded rod in the place of the axle. With two nuts on it. then turn the nuts so they move outward away from each other until you get 126mm of spread between the dropouts, measuring with a caliper. then you can put two straight edges like steel rulers with one on each dropout face and see that way to what extent they are not parallel. You are magnifying the misalignment this way assuming you can get straight edges flat on the faces. maybe you could use clamps to hold it. if you can get something like this set up, measure the distance between the straight edges near the dropouts, and again out near the ends, and see how different it is.
maybe you could use the rod and nuts to over stretch it and permanently bend it wider so it doesn't spring back to 120mm when you take the wheel out. Problem is you want the two chainstays to bend out an equal amount, 3mm each, and there is no reason to think that doing that would bend them equally. Probably only one would bend because it was weaker.
So why don't you want to remove some spacers and cut the axle, anyway?
maybe you could use the rod and nuts to over stretch it and permanently bend it wider so it doesn't spring back to 120mm when you take the wheel out. Problem is you want the two chainstays to bend out an equal amount, 3mm each, and there is no reason to think that doing that would bend them equally. Probably only one would bend because it was weaker.
So why don't you want to remove some spacers and cut the axle, anyway?
Last edited by mike6024; 10-01-12 at 10:08 AM. Reason: add question
10-01-12, 10:07 AM
#28
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Ask Sheldon.
https://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
https://sheldonbrown.com/forkend-alignment.html
https://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
https://sheldonbrown.com/forkend-alignment.html
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10-01-12, 10:10 AM
#29
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10-01-12, 10:23 AM
#30
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I'd re-dish for a wider OLD, but not for a narrower one unless the frame can't be tweaked (ally, carbon). The wider the OLD, the stronger the wheel.
Dishing is pretty easy; you just add or remove tension from the NDS evenly as necessary... if you can true a wheel, you can dish one.
Incidentally, if you had an old aluminium or carbon frame with a 126mm OLD, you can have a 8/9/10spd wheel with less dish than a normal 130mm OLD one, if you use an off-centre rim.
Dishing is pretty easy; you just add or remove tension from the NDS evenly as necessary... if you can true a wheel, you can dish one.
Incidentally, if you had an old aluminium or carbon frame with a 126mm OLD, you can have a 8/9/10spd wheel with less dish than a normal 130mm OLD one, if you use an off-centre rim.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
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Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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10-01-12, 10:29 AM
#31
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Take the wheel out. Put a piece of 3/8 inch threaded rod in the place of the axle. With two nuts on it. then turn the nuts so they move outward away from each other until you get 126mm of spread between the dropouts, measuring with a caliper. then you can put two straight edges like steel rulers with one on each dropout face and see that way to what extent they are not parallel. You are magnifying the misalignment this way assuming you can get straight edges flat on the faces. maybe you could use clamps to hold it. if you can get something like this set up, measure the distance between the straight edges near the dropouts, and again out near the ends, and see how different it is.
maybe you could use the rod and nuts to over stretch it and permanently bend it wider so it doesn't spring back to 120mm when you take the wheel out. Problem is you want the two chainstays to bend out an equal amount, 3mm each, and there is no reason to think that doing that would bend them equally. Probably only one would bend because it was weaker.
So why don't you want to remove some spacers and cut the axle, anyway?
maybe you could use the rod and nuts to over stretch it and permanently bend it wider so it doesn't spring back to 120mm when you take the wheel out. Problem is you want the two chainstays to bend out an equal amount, 3mm each, and there is no reason to think that doing that would bend them equally. Probably only one would bend because it was weaker.
So why don't you want to remove some spacers and cut the axle, anyway?
=8-)
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5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
10-01-12, 10:39 AM
#32
Senior Member
When Sheldon says how to spread the chainstays he does not mention a need to re-bend the dropouts to be parallel, as far as I see. Does Sheldon consider that insignificant?
Yes he bends each chainstay separately, so you would be bending each 3mm. Then check it with the string so each are equally spread relative to the seat tube.
I say just leave it as is. Only have to pull a bit when mounting the wheel.
Yes he bends each chainstay separately, so you would be bending each 3mm. Then check it with the string so each are equally spread relative to the seat tube.
I say just leave it as is. Only have to pull a bit when mounting the wheel.
10-01-12, 10:46 AM
#33
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__________________
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
10-01-12, 11:07 AM
#34
Senior Member
That cut axle alignment "tool" does not look to be very accurate. It would be difficult to get better than 1/2 degree with that and the crescent wrench as described. Not worth the trouble if what you are looking to correct is so small. At least IMO.
If you could clamp two long straight edges to the dropouts I think you could see a half degree misalignment easier because it would be magnified more.
If you could clamp two long straight edges to the dropouts I think you could see a half degree misalignment easier because it would be magnified more.
10-01-12, 11:17 AM
#35
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
10-01-12, 11:37 AM
#36
Senior Member
pstake, Honestly I wouldn't worry. There is much more clamping force from the QRs than the frame is delivering to the hub on it's own. The dropouts won't have changed angle enough to do any damage. If the tire is centered, keep on riding.
Brad
Brad
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10-01-12, 11:45 AM
#37
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The two issues here are, 1 - the hassle of jamming the wheel in every time,
And 2 - the non-parallel dropouts are forcing the spindle to bend when it's clamped in, causing premature and excessive wear on the bearings, particularly because they're cartridge type.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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10-01-12, 12:38 PM
#38
Senior Member
I don't like the idea of spreading the dropouts with a 2 by 4 either. You are bending them separately, yes that is good. But what if you pull too hard and get 5mm? You only need 3mm per each side. If you don't pull hard enough on the 2 by 4 you get no bend at all and it just springs back to the original position.
Seems you could easily overshoot and screw it up. Because all you are looking for is 3mm and that is a small amount, and I would think difficult to do accurately.
Seems you could easily overshoot and screw it up. Because all you are looking for is 3mm and that is a small amount, and I would think difficult to do accurately.
10-01-12, 12:48 PM
#39
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The OP seems to think it'll be easier than dishing a wheel.
I'd put them about on par. Competence required.
I'd put them about on par. Competence required.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
10-01-12, 03:26 PM
#40
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Thread Starter
Point taken. Maybe it's time for me to learn to re-dish.
I'd like to learn to spread the frame, too.
Either way, probably won't have a chance to do either until later this week and will try to document my progress and post pictures.
I'd like to learn to spread the frame, too.
Either way, probably won't have a chance to do either until later this week and will try to document my progress and post pictures.
10-01-12, 03:30 PM
#41
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Like I said, it makes more sense IMO to spread the frame to accommodate a stronger wheel.
Just saying, both jobs require patience and attention to detail.
Just saying, both jobs require patience and attention to detail.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
10-01-12, 03:35 PM
#42
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10-01-12, 03:43 PM
#43
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That too, but it's not much of a consideration for a lot of folks with old bikes; a new wheelset is usually quite an occasion.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
10-02-12, 07:36 AM
#44
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I'm pretty active with our local bike co-op and found a guy with a dropout alignment tool, who I'm bringing my bike to Thursday. Good news. I still plan to spread the frame myself, using an all thread.
10-10-12, 06:04 PM
#45
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Thread Starter
I just wanted to check back in here. I used a 3/8 all thread and corresponding nuts (four but two would have worked) in the configuration in this photo I took (ignore the mess please — thanks) ... and spread the frame from 120 to a little over 129. I went ahead and went over the 126 mark in case my next set of wheels is a set of 130mm. The frame stretched to about 150 before it started to "bend" permanently.
Then I took the frame to a local guy who has the tool and he aligned the rear dropouts as well as the fork, for $8. So all in all I spent about $12 to spread the frame and align the dropouts. The bike rides good and wheel slips in and out like butta.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and I hope this can help anyone else who stumbles upon it in the future.
Cheers,
Phil
Then I took the frame to a local guy who has the tool and he aligned the rear dropouts as well as the fork, for $8. So all in all I spent about $12 to spread the frame and align the dropouts. The bike rides good and wheel slips in and out like butta.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and I hope this can help anyone else who stumbles upon it in the future.
Cheers,
Phil
Last edited by pstake; 10-10-12 at 06:43 PM.
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10-10-12, 06:44 PM
#46
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Congratulations on what you accomplished so far. Glad you are happy!
Last edited by mike6024; 10-11-12 at 09:35 AM.
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