Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Tiagra ST-4500 brifters and FD-4600 front derailleur

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Tiagra ST-4500 brifters and FD-4600 front derailleur

Old 10-02-12, 01:58 AM
  #1  
Deetox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 88

Bikes: Apollo Custom Sport, Populo Quest

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tiagra ST-4500 brifters and FD-4600 front derailleur

I bought what was supposed to be an FD-4500 (rated for 9spd) front derailleur on ebay but it turned out to be an FD-4600 (rated for 10spd) instead. My guess is it probably won't work with my ST-4500 9spd brifters (why else would they make different FD models for different speeds) but since I'm still a noob at all this I just want to make sure before I contact the seller. Can someone please confirm for me if this is indeed the case?

Thanks.
Deetox is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 02:04 AM
  #2  
escarpment
Senior Member
 
escarpment's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: chicago
Posts: 781

Bikes: cannondale crit 3.0, specialized allez, old giant mtb/hybrid

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It should work just fine.
escarpment is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 02:34 AM
  #3  
jimc101
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,438
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Deetox View Post
(why else would they make different FD models for different speeds)
Apart from small size differences (it should still work fine); cosmetics, color, design, and that it's new will all be reasons for having different models.
jimc101 is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 02:46 AM
  #4  
Deetox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 88

Bikes: Apollo Custom Sport, Populo Quest

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Are you guys sure it will work fine? I just found a similar thread to mine and it doesn't leave me feeling too confident that it will.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/671383-Shimano-105-10-speed-front-derailleur-with-9-speed-everything-else
Deetox is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 03:12 AM
  #5  
Deetox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 88

Bikes: Apollo Custom Sport, Populo Quest

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Would I be better off just leaving my current FD on the bike (Dura Ace FD-7700) since its rated for 9spd? I bought the Tiagra FD because I didn't think my FD-7700 would be compatible with the ST-4500 brifters. Perhaps I was wrong about that?
Deetox is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 03:52 AM
  #6  
e_guevara
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 699

Bikes: Cannondale CAAD10 Team, Giant TCR

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As what the previous posters said, it'll work just fine.

The "speed" in a particular gruppo is a function of the number of cogs the system can shift at the rear. The crank/FD doesn't care if it's put on whatever "speed" system.

However it's a different thing when your system uses a double chainring or a triple chainring crankset - totally different FDs. One can work with the other, but it takes a lot of fudging to make it work properly.

As for the difference in the models - Sora, Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace, the higher up you go, the lighter it gets (and more expensive). They use different materials and better bearings. But aside from weight and aesthetics, they work the same way (except for some older (way older) model Dura Ace).
e_guevara is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 06:40 AM
  #7  
Deetox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 88

Bikes: Apollo Custom Sport, Populo Quest

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by e_guevara View Post
As what the previous posters said, it'll work just fine.

The "speed" in a particular gruppo is a function of the number of cogs the system can shift at the rear. The crank/FD doesn't care if it's put on whatever "speed" system.
I understand the 9spd and 10spd terminology refers to the rear cogs but I've come across multiple sources now that say a 10spd FD cage is slightly narrower and could cause problems like extra chainrub and less than optimal shifting if the rest of the drivetrain is 9spd. I don't mean to imply you guys are wrong when you say it will work fine but there does seem to be contradicting info out there.

However it's a different thing when your system uses a double chainring or a triple chainring crankset - totally different FDs. One can work with the other, but it takes a lot of fudging to make it work properly.
Yes that much I already knew. I have a double crankset so both FD's I have are compatible in that regard. HOWEVER I just pulled back the hood on my left Tiagra brifter and saw that its labeled ST-4503 which appears to be for triple cranksets only. Up until now I thought it was the ST-4500 model for double/triple cranksets but it seems I was gravely mistaken.

Just wonderful, now what the heck am I gonna do.

Last edited by Deetox; 10-02-12 at 06:55 AM.
Deetox is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 07:08 AM
  #8  
shelbyfv
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,145
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1063 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 53 Posts
Your 7700 front will be fine, no need to change unless something is wrong with it (worn out.) The triple brifters will work fine with a double crank. You will just have an extra click somewhere.
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 07:22 AM
  #9  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,932
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1319 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Since you have the parts, try them (used FD first so you can resell the new one when it turns out not to be needed) and see. If it doesn't work (and it will), then worry about it.
himespau is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 07:36 AM
  #10  
e_guevara
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 699

Bikes: Cannondale CAAD10 Team, Giant TCR

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Deetox View Post
... a 10spd FD cage is slightly narrower and could cause problems like extra chainrub and less than optimal shifting if the rest of the drivetrain is 9spd
The FD cage is narrower because of the narrower chain. Define "optimal shifting"? Chain rub exists at extreme gearing combinations (big-big or small-small) when the chain is skewed at a too much angle - a combination you should not be at anyways IMO. Personally I trim it out (chain rub at extreme gears) on my bikes but that's me. FWIW, I have had a 9sp FD working on an otherwise 10sp setup with no problems. Just takes a lot more fiddling than usual. The same can be said for the 10sp FD on a 9sp drivetrain.

I just pulled back the hood on my left Tiagra brifter and saw that its labeled ST-4503 which appears to be for triple cranksets only.
The difference between double and triple shifters is an extra click to get it into the extra chain ring. Obviously a shifter designed for two rings won't be able to get into the the third. But a triple shifter will have no problems. All you have to do is set the limit screws on the FD to limit the amount of cable pulled by the shifter, locking out the third click.

Last edited by e_guevara; 10-02-12 at 08:37 AM.
e_guevara is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 09:43 AM
  #11  
bobotech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,253

Bikes: Specialized Sequoia Elite/Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Ti/'85 Trek 520

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
All of your components should work fine. It seems really silly to me to replace a Dura Ace front derailleur with a lower tier Tiagra front derailleur. Nevertheless, the "speeds" of a front derailleur really don't matter in the real world. I have used 9 speed front derailleurs with 7-8 speed setups with no problems whatsoever.

If it were me, I would keep the better Dura Ace front derailleur and sell the other parts or keep as spares.

The labels on the products really drive the anal OCD roadies nuts but in the end, they all will work fine with no issue when properly adjusted.
bobotech is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 10:10 AM
  #12  
IthaDan 
Senior Member
 
IthaDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 4,917

Bikes: Click on the #YOLO

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Since you have the parts, try them (used FD first so you can resell the new one when it turns out not to be needed) and see. If it doesn't work (and it will), then worry about it.
+1 Yup.

Originally Posted by Deetox View Post
I understand the 9spd and 10spd terminology refers to the rear cogs but I've come across multiple sources now that say a 10spd FD cage is slightly narrower and could cause problems like extra chainrub and less than optimal shifting if the rest of the drivetrain is 9spd. I don't mean to imply you guys are wrong when you say it will work fine but there does seem to be contradicting info out there.
Just think, you can be the first to actually try it and add to the communal knowledge. If there is ANY issue, you might have to trim the front a little (Very little) more than usual. But never having run the proper 4500, how will you know what's normal? Thus, it'll work fine.

And you can run a triple brifter on a double all day long. Bikes used to ship OEM with triple shifters on doubles. There is a catch however, normally you can keep away from the last index with the limit screws on the FD, but as the cable stretches and the ferrules seat, you might just barely be able to catch the last index if you force the shifter. This is a huge strain on the shifter, and has led to premature failure in a lot of them, but more from a lack of information being parlayed to the end user from dealers than an actual design flaw. Now that you know it's there, keep an eye out, and keep it adjusted- it'll work fine.
__________________

Shimano : Click :: Campy : Snap :: SRAM : Bang
IthaDan is offline  
Old 10-02-12, 03:28 PM
  #13  
Drew Eckhardt 
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Posts: 5,661
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by e_guevara View Post
As what the previous posters said, it'll work just fine.

The "speed" in a particular gruppo is a function of the number of cogs the system can shift at the rear. The crank/FD doesn't care if it's put on whatever "speed" system.
No, although they sometimes care how wide the chain is with the higher "speed" chains becoming progressively narrower.

I had zero usable overlapping gears on the two rings due to chain rub on the big ring in the last few cogs when I tried to use an FSA "9 and 10 speed compatible" Carbon Pro Compact with a nine-speed chain until I shimmed one of the rings to arrive at stock Campagnolo 9 speed ring spacing.

While I had no problems shifting the nine speed chain with an 8 speed era Campagnolo Racing-T triple front derailleur some people have experienced shifting problems when trying to run narrow chains (10 or 11 speed) with older front derailleurs. The other way around you may need more front derailleur trim.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 10-03-12, 07:26 AM
  #14  
Deetox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 88

Bikes: Apollo Custom Sport, Populo Quest

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for all the replies, they've been a massive help. Guess I may as well stick with the FD-7700, the inside of the cage is pretty scratched up but it still works good. I'll keep the FD-4600 as a backup for the time being just in case.

As for locking out the extra shift position can someone please explain exactly how to do that so I don't mess anything up? I've only adjusted limit screws once before on my mountain bike and I didn't have to worry about any extra clicks that time.
Deetox is offline  
Old 10-03-12, 08:53 AM
  #15  
e_guevara
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 699

Bikes: Cannondale CAAD10 Team, Giant TCR

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Parktool has a very informative site for bicycle repairs.

Front Derailleur Adjustments
e_guevara is offline  
Old 10-03-12, 09:24 AM
  #16  
jimc101
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,438
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Deetox View Post
As for locking out the extra shift position can someone please explain exactly how to do that so I don't mess anything up? I've only adjusted limit screws once before on my mountain bike and I didn't have to worry about any extra clicks that time.
The extra click which was mentioned won't apply with the hardware you have, and its a bit confusing to mention it.

The extra click for triple shifters (left hand shifter) would only be applicable if you have a set of ST-4503 set of shifters, you said in the first post you have ST-4500's which are double only. Therefore you can't have the additional click, as you shifters don't have this functionality.
jimc101 is offline  
Old 10-03-12, 09:26 AM
  #17  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,932
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1319 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Deetox View Post
Yes that much I already knew. I have a double crankset so both FD's I have are compatible in that regard. HOWEVER I just pulled back the hood on my left Tiagra brifter and saw that its labeled ST-4503 which appears to be for triple cranksets only. Up until now I thought it was the ST-4500 model for double/triple cranksets but it seems I was gravely mistaken.
Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
The extra click which was mentioned won't apply with the hardware you have, and its a bit confusing to mention it.

The extra click for triple shifters (left hand shifter) would only be applicable if you have a set of ST-4503 set of shifters, you said in the first post you have ST-4500's which are double only. Therefore you can't have the additional click, as you shifters don't have this functionality.
Looks like he does have 4503's. If you just set your limit screws where they need to be, it shouldn't be an issue.
himespau is offline  
Old 10-03-12, 04:27 PM
  #18  
Deetox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 88

Bikes: Apollo Custom Sport, Populo Quest

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah the left brifter is a 4503 and the right one is a 4500. When I started the thread I thought they were both 4500's but later discovered that wasn't the case.

So since my limit screws are already set up for a double I shouldn't have to adjust them again?
Deetox is offline  
Old 10-03-12, 06:47 PM
  #19  
e_guevara
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 699

Bikes: Cannondale CAAD10 Team, Giant TCR

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes. But it would be a good idea to check your derailleur movement anyways just to be sure.
e_guevara is offline  
Old 10-03-12, 07:46 PM
  #20  
IthaDan 
Senior Member
 
IthaDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 4,917

Bikes: Click on the #YOLO

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Loosen up the low limit, set the FD low limit with the cable tension so it doesn't rub in the lowest gear (small ring/biggest cog), then tighten the low limit to the point that it just moves the FD, then back it off.

Set the high limit as normal. You should only have the one click. This ensures you're getting all you're going to get (and not have a point of the cable being too slack) with the two gear positions.
__________________

Shimano : Click :: Campy : Snap :: SRAM : Bang
IthaDan is offline  
Old 10-04-12, 07:45 PM
  #21  
Deetox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Deetox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 88

Bikes: Apollo Custom Sport, Populo Quest

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok I will give it a shot, thanks again for all the help.
Deetox is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Tracy
Touring
0
04-03-00 03:47 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.