RookDroid

Hi,

I have a Shimano Utegra headset according to the specifications on the 1999 catalogue for the Cannondale R2000 that I had purchased. On the headset I see Shimano 600 written on it so I am unsure which headset I actually have or if they are the same. Does anyone know where I can obtain replacement bearings for this headset? It uses sealed cartridge bearings.

Thanks.

HillRider

I assume it's Shimano's HP-6500 1" threaded headset. I have used them on a couple of bikes with great satisfaction. Unfortunately, a Google search didn't find a source for replacement bearings and the current QBP catalog doesn't show them. I don't know if they are available anywhere except if you find them NOS by plain good luck.

I don't know if this will help but I believe the same bearings were used in the Dura Ace HP-7400 and, a less well sealed version in the 105-level HP-5500. Also, I believe these bearings were made specifically by Shimano and don't have a commercial match although taking one of your worn ones to a good bearing supply shop may turn up something.

RookDroid

I think I am just going to have to make due until I can find a place that sells a replacement bearing. Any suggestions for cleaning the sealed cartridge bearings I currently have? I am not sure whether I should be using degreaser, water, soap, or something else.

HillRider

The HP-6500 has pretty tightly sealed cartridges with no obvious removable covers so there isn't much you can do to get inside. I'd clean them externally with kerosene or mineral spirits, dry them thoroughly and pack copious amounts of grease around them when reinstalling the headset.

Why do you need replacements? If you take one of the cartridges and try to move the inner and outer race relative to each other, is there any play? If not, the bearings are ok.

RookDroid

What would be considered a reasonable amount of play? When I grab the outer race and move the inner one relative to it I can compress the inner race slightly so that it is closer to the outer race. The reason I wanted to replace it was because the grease that it was previously packed with has a lot of grit on it and I am unsure whether the sealed cartridge bearing is still okay. I just bought the bike off craigslist so I wanted to overhaul everything and if the replacement for a sealed cartridge bearing was easy I would have just replaced it. Thanks for all the help by the way!

RookDroid

Also this may be a stupid beginner question but when I use mineral spirits (paint thinner?), do I just soak the bearings in it or wipe it down with some on a cloth?

Doug64

Try some WD-40 on a rag, and just roll the bearing (between the rag) between your thumb and forefinger. WD-40 is a good de-greaser, and is a heck of a lot more user friendly than paint thinner.

Dave Mayer

I have taken these apart several times. You need a very small flat blade screwdriver, dexterity and some patience.

Do NOT try and clean/degrease the cartridges until you take them apart. You'll either strip all of the grease out if you use an effective degreaser such as white gas or mineral spirits, or you'll just fill them up with water if you use an ineffective degreaser - which includes all water-based products. The latter is worse, as this will leave you with a corroded mess within a few weeks.

As with all bike cleaning exercises, the worst things you can use is water, followed closely by WD-40.

Once you get the cartridges apart, you can simply clean the ball bearings and races with a rag. Then repack with grease and snap the halves of the cartridges back together. If the races are somewhat pitted, then throw away the ball-bearing retainers, and fill them up with a greater number of suitably-sized balls. Basically fill them up, and then remove one ball. You should be able to get another 10 years of use out of these.

Great design, and execution for a headset. I've owned or serviced about every 1" threaded headset ever made, and these are the best. They are worth keeping.

Kimmo 

Good to know the cartridges are serviceable.

RookDroid

What kind of grease would you recommend for this application? Also, if I have pitted races will it be detrimental to future use (i.e. advanced wear) or will obtaining new bearing balls prevent further deterioration? Thanks for the help.

HillRider

Any of the good moderate weight greases will be fine. i'm partial to Phil Grease but there are others and many, many multi-page threads on this forum that go on at great lengths about the poster's favorites.

New balls won't help if the races are damaged but are a good idea if the races are sound.

By the time you get all of this worked out, it might be easier to replace the headset entirely. There are several threaded 1" heasdets still available at modest cost. Jenson has a Tange Levin headset for only $20: https://www.jensonusa.com/Headsets/Ta...readed-Headset

Dave Mayer

Grease to use? Same as with all bike applications: petroleum-based auto wheel bearing grease you buy in a 1 pound tub for $4. Or you can buy the same thing by the ounce at a bike shop for the same price.

The #1 killer of headsets is false brinelling. The brilliant Shimano design largely eliminates this, but is not totally immune. There is a chance that your cartridges also suffered from water intrusion, and that you may find a corroded mess on the insides. Either way, you should to take them apart and then report back.

With false brinelling, the balls dig little 'pits' into the races. This is what causes 'indexed steering'. With almost all headsets, you can eliminate the indexing by putting more ball bearings into the headset that were there before. This way, the balls now longer have the chance to line up with the pits in the races. This sounds like a kludge solution, but the headset is restored to silky smooth operation, and buys you another 5+ years of headset life. I have an old Campy Record headset that has developed indexing 3 times (I do lot of long straight high-speed runs on chattery roads), and by playing with the positioning of the crown race and the number of balls, I have restored it to like-new operation recently for the 4th time.

In your case, you may as well replace all of the balls. Make sure you use the same size balls as were in there before - probably 1/8". This should only cost a couple of bucks.

If for some reason the cartridges are really really in bad shape, trust me: try and get new cartridges. Replacing the headset with something else will involve the following risks:

• A new headset will certainly have a different stack height. Is your fork steerer long enough for the new headset?
• You can try and pick up a new headset at a shop, but most shops will not have a 1" threaded unit in stock. And if they do, it will probably be a useless orphaned JIS unit, which will likely be incompatible with your headtube and fork. The newbie mechanics will not know the difference.
• When they try to insert the JIS headset cups, they will be mystified as to why they have to use massive torque on the biggest bench vice in the shop to force the cups into the headtube. Or why the headtube then split.
• There is no better headset than what you already have. No matter how much you pay, there is no 'upgrade'.

RookDroid

Thanks for all the great info Dave. I've taken your advice and took the cartridge bearings apart. I am unsure how to check for pitting other than what I've read, which just mentions running a pen over the races. What am I feeling for? Roughness or just big 'pits' in the races? I can only feel minimal surface roughness with the pen in select areas (not even sure if it's just in my head). Also while disassembling I noticed that the seals have slight slits in the plastic. To be exact there is one slit on each seal and I am not sure whether this is for facilitating easy removal or if there was damage in the plastic seal. Hopefully this won't have a negative affect on the bearings.

I've checked the specifications on these bearings and I believe the ball bearings are 5/32" (according to this source https://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830609006.pdf). I will go to local bearing supply store as soon as possible to obtain some new bearing balls since I already opened it up I might as well replace them all. Earlier you also mentioned just using a rag to clean the old grease off the disassembled cartridge. Would using some paint thinner aid in this process and facilitate better cleaning?

Thanks!

HillRider

A few comments:

1. The HP-6500/HP-7400 headsets have a stack height of 37.8 mm and should be similar to, or close enough to be replaced by most current 1" threaded headsets.

2. The JIS/ISO choice must be made correctly but you are wrong about the size disparity and the consequences of fitting a JIS headset to an ISO frame. A JIS headset has smaller cup diameter (30.0 mm vs ISO's 30.2 mm) and a larger crown race (27.0 vs ISO's 26.4 mm) so using a JIS headset by mistake results in a very loose fit, not a damagingly tight one.

3. ISO dimentioned 1" threadless headsets are still readily available. I already linked to a very reasonably priced Tange one at Jenson and Bike Tools Etc offers a 1" threaded cartridge bearing FSA headset at a reasonable price. Of course, if cost is no object, Chris King still offers 1" threaded headsets adjustable over a wide range of stack heights.

4. I agree the HP-6500 was a class act but it and it's stable mates are no longer in production and their bearings are not standard bearing shop items. The OP's best bet is to find a complete NOS HP-6500/HP-5500/HP-7400 and use it's bearings as replacements.

Dave Mayer

Brain freeze: you are correct. The JIS headset cups are larger. So instead what will happen at my LBS will be that the mechanics will insert their (orphaned in-stock) JIS cups into the frame and they will be inexplicably loose. The diagnosis will be that your frame is damaged, likely due to a frontal crash. Recommendation: a new bike.

Dave Mayer

Damn.. another correction - the JIS cups are smaller. Coffee first - posting later.

Anyway: back to RookDroid's disassembly of the Shimano cartridges. It sounds like the races are in good shape. If they had been a victim of false brinelling, you would clearly see 20 or so little pits that was the source of the indexed steering. So the balls may not have to be replaced after all. A little solvent couldn't hurt for thorough cleaning, but the important thing is to remove the bulk of the dirt/water/corrosion and freshen them up with new grease. Then snap them back together and good to go.

I remember that there were 2 types of cartridges that Shimano used in these headsets - one style had what appeared to be a gap between the plastic parts, through which you could catch a glimpse of the balls. This is normal.

Good luck.

RookDroid

I forgot to make a small note but there are shiny little spots on the outer race that are the same in number as the ball bearings. They are not concave though.

HillRider

Right, the HP-6500 (Ultegra) and HP-7400 (Dura Ace) level headsets had completely enclosed cartridges and you cannot see anything inside. The HP-5500 (105 version) had the open gap you describe and you could see inside. I suppose it is possibly to flush them out and reinject grease without disassembly.