steltz02

I recently picked up an old Trek frame. I believe it's a 1988 400T, but I'm not exactly sure; there was limited info on the vintage Trek page for the serial number. I'm already pretty attached to it for a number of reasons and I am hoping this frame will be usable for my needs.

I'm building it up as a touring bike. I started off with 700c x 23 wheels and this is what it looked like with respect to the fork.



I want much larger tires (likely 35mm) and also fenders, so obviously I need to go another route. My next thought was to go 26" wheels. Aside from obviously needing more room, I think 26" would be a ideal because I will be touring in South America and read that it was difficult to find 700c wheel parts down there, 26" wheels are standard, 26" can be built more sturdy, etc.

So the next problem is finding a decent brake that reaches all the way down to the 26" rim. Here's what it looks like with the caliper set from center of the brake bolt hole down to 78mm.

front


rear


I chose 78 mm as the reference because ideally I would run weinmann 750s or diacompe 750s as I know they are both strong and trusted and specs say they max out at 78mm.

https://www.diacompe.com.tw/product_View.asp?nid=969

Will the diacompes work with my rim/frame setup? I thought maybe if i max them out and add those cup adjusters and angle them slightly down, it could work.

The other option would be Tektro 984s which is a BMX brake that will extend all the way to 90mm.
https://www.tektro.com/_english/01_pr...e&sort=1&fid=2

I have no idea of what the stopping power of these thing are, but I have read decent reviews (although no one had my application). Likely I would switch over to cool stop salmons if that changes anything. I will be carrying 70+ lbs of gear and I am ~#180.

What route should I take regarding the brakes?

Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated.

Thank for your time. Ride on.

Matt

fietsbob

only drum brake hub wheels have a chance of working..

BB height drops a lot too. pedal strike more likely..

Build a 26" wheel MTB up as a 26" touring bike it will go anywhere you need to go..
(or get the cash up to buy a 700c x 37 touring rig)

in the back roads of The Andes 559 tires have more sources..

As said, only drum brake hub wheels have a chance of working ..

jyl

You could make a drop bolt (drop bracket) and use normal reach brakes.

Don't mess with trying to get super long reach brakes to work. They might sort of work in a perfect situation, but what about when you're descending a steep slope, in the rain, rims slick with muddy water, pads worn, 250# of rider and gear.

See Sheldon Brown's site on drop bolt / bracket. Or search here.

But what I'd really do, if you want 26" wheels, is use an older hardtail MTB. Frame will be made for 26" wheels, lots of clearance, eyelets for fenders and racks, cantilever brakes, high bottom bracket. Very strong, something to consider for your load. Will already come with the gearing you'll want. Do a drop bar conversion.

FastJake

+1

Lots of old rigid MTBs out there for cheap. If you use caliper brakes to reach 26" wheels on the Trek, braking performance will be terrible (unless you do drop bolts.) Based on the first picture this is a road racing frame and really wouldn't make a good touring bike. Does it even have eyelets for fenders and a rack?

There are a lot of good things you could do with that Trek frame but IMO a 26" touring bike isn't one of them.

HillRider

+1 on getting the proper frame. Even if you manage to get long reach brakes to fit, they will work poorly and the entire bike is a compromise. Use the Trek for what it was intended and get a more suitable touring frame.

steltz02

Alright, it looks like it's unanimous. Thanks for the dose of reality.

The Trek does have eyelets, but not alot of clearance anywhere.

I ride a 58cm or 60cm on a road frame, what would be a good size MTB hardtail for me 20"?

Can you make any suggestions on a badass MTB frame + fork for ~$100.

I'm looking at this specialized on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Special...item2ec432b359 ..

It this in the ballpark? Am I just simply looking for a hardtail setup with eyelets and cantis? Ideally my 48 38 28 Sugino crank I just bought will fit on the MTB.

chriskmurray

Just look around for any old quality steel rigid mountain bike, just make sure it is a bike shop brand like Giant, Trek, Specialized. We sell old used Rockhoppers and similar older steel rigid mountain bikes tuned up and in good shape for $100-$150 all day long so chances are you could find a frame very cheap if not free if you wander past one in a dumpster someone decided they did not want.

steltz02

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motobecane-F...item337e594934
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Giant-Acapul...item2a26547120

striknein

650b conversion is another option, that will get you in the realm of 75mm reach brakes and you still get your fat tire fix.

wrk101

Hardtail = suspension fork = forget it. Think full rigid frame MTB, the kind made from the mid 1980s to the early 1990s. There are millions of them out there, and the MTB crowd won't touch them, keeping prices low.

Don't waste your time buying just a frameset, buy a complete rigid frame MTB. Even if you don't need all of the parts, you will probably need some of them, and building from a bare frame = money pit. Whatever left overs you end up with, just donate to your favorite co-op, or resell some of the parts you paid money to accumulate but don't need.

My recommendation on vintage mtbs is always the same, aim high! The difference between a low end vintage mtb in the used market and a high end might be all of $50 ($100 vs $150). For that extra $50, you will get a bike that originally retailed for 4X higher than the entry bike: better frame, better components, lighter weight, etc.

So I would either raise your budget, or look aggressively. I picked up my Univega for $40, one Trek for $50, and the other for $25, and the Cimmaron was even less. Those prices are NOT typical!! Its really about the value of your time, spend a lot of time looking or enjoy the convenience of just grabbing one your size. Convenience costs $$. Its your choice what works best for you.

So for example, on Trek mtbs, the 900 series bikes were all really nice. I have two 950s right now. Pretty much all the bike shop brands made good ones. Besides the Treks, I have a nice Univega Alpina Pro (top of the line for them) and a nice Schwinn Cimmaron (top of the line for them).

That Specialized doesn't come with a fork, thats just additional expense and hassle on the build. Think local C/L, avoid the shipping, and avoid the competition from other buyers.

If you want inspiration, we have a 14 page thread on converting MTBs to drop bar bikes, lots of examples of conversions (shameless plug, OK, I started that thread, but several forum members posted a lot nicer versions than mine for sure). I converted the Univega, and plan to convert the Cimmaron next.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ar-Conversions

Old rigid frame MTBs offer tremendous value right now IMHO.

FBinNY 

You're doing it the hard way.

They now make 29'r mtn bike wheels and tires. 29'r is mtn bike speak for 700c, so you can go to wider tires up to the limits of your frame and fork clearance without changing your wheels.

dsbrantjr

"650b conversion is another option,"

The OP is already concerned about getting 700c tires in remote locations; I would think 650b would have even poorer availability.

I agree with the above suggestions that a hardtail MTB in 26in or a 29er would be a better choice.

FBinNY 

You can't make a silk purse.....

trying to make this into a 26" bike introduces significant costs, and any brake with adequate reach will have poor performance owing to it's long reach. If you're touring you need better than average brakes because you'll be loaded, and riding in all weather, so long reach calipers are just about the worst option.

29r is a straightforward option with little design downsides. But if you're convinced that 26" is better suited to your needs, you're better off starting fresh with a frame or bike made for it.

BTW- if you're concerned about the availability of 700c tires in SA. Go on line, search for bike shops in SA, and email them about tire availability. I'm sure they're readily available because SA has a very large road biking community, though they might refer to 700c by thee ISO size, 622mm.

HillRider

I expect the frame and fork clearance are really the problem. I had an '83 Trek 400 that came with 27" wheels but the brakes let me substitute 700c and they gave noticably improved fork and frame clearance. Even then, 700x28 was the absolute largest that would fit and 700x25 with fenders. There is no way fat 29'er tires will fit.

dbg

If you're going touring far away, you should do every bit of maintenance and upgrade before you leave. That will not only catch the unknown pieces that are "about to break down" but it will also make you very familiar with bike maintenance on YOUR bike. (I've been on several multi-day trips where some riders took bikes that were clearly "about to break down." Sure enough they did, and we all had to stop and figure out road fixes for problems that would have been simple in the shop.) This includes all moving parts and pieces with bearings. Upgrades could get expensive now but you might desperately wish you had on the road later.

+1 on the 26" non suspension mtb frame.

ksisler

The way ahead you lay out has you throwing a lot of money and time down the rabbit hole of "little to no return on investment" and resulting in a suboptimal solution at best.

So you can change the rims on the existing wheels for some a bit wider to hand 700Cx37's and go from there (the economies of starting with just a frame are dubious at best).

Or you can set that bike aside and hit craiglist for an MTB or hybrid bike (not just a frame) that already has the 26" wheels you need and already has the cantilever brakes that you really want (add KoolStop pads, plus 3-4 sets of spares). There are daily many good TREK brand MTB's on there for really small money. It is a much better path to take.

You might want to hit some of the dedicated sites and posting dealing with want to have on your "packing list" for a said trip. At 70 pounds your current load estimate seems like it could use some optimizing, so to speak, meaning to sort out what you really don't need vice trying to find an Anvil made of titanium and other such foolish adventures.

steltz02

Amazing info from everyone. Thanks again. This forum is amazing.

@ FBinNY I am riding from Columbia to Argentina over 2 years and will explore the ins and outs of every country along the way (Peru, Bolivia, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Ecquador, Columbia). I imagine 700c s would be in the big cities, but in the remote countryside towns, if anything goes down, 26" will be my best option.

read here https://familyonbikes.org/blog/2011/0...nitive-answer/ and here https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=174187 ...

@ wrk101 Thanks for the great tips. Good looking thread. I will be reading through it shortly.

@ Hillrider Right on, no clearance at all.

@ dbg Yup. I'm going to get everything working and exactly like I want it here. Spirit air allows a bike to be shipped with the passenger for only $75. That's one hell of a deal and then I have transportation from the airport .

I might post some of my options here soon to hopefully get some input.

How about this Trek 830? $99 locally. 21" frame (although it looks small :/)

steltz02

Oh, one more piece of info. I have a very good working relationship with the local bike coop, so getting parts isn't as horrible for me.

@ksisler Ya, the route you are suggesting is starting to make much more sense. However it might be difficult to find a rim with 36 spokes, double walled rims, properly laced, etc, so replacing some parts may still be a necessity.

The 70 pounds was an estimate. I am an experienced backpacker, so hopefully those skills will translate well to touring.

I don't leave until June or July, so I have plenty of time to get things right. I'm just getting an early start because I'm excited as a kid at Christmas

Eh, looks like the 830 is pretty entry level. I should likely be patient.

HillRider

I assume you mean 36H rims. Actually for a 26" wheel, 32 spokes are quite adequate for any reasonable use.

Wow, I hope you can keep the load below that. I've heard of people touring with 100+ pound loads but consider them more dedicated than intelligent. Unless you get to southern Argentina in the winter (June, July and August) you shouldn't need much in the way of heavy bulky clothing or a winter sleeping bag.

And, yes, the 830 was at the bottom of Trek's MTB line. Keep looking for one of the 900-series if you can be patient.

steltz02

Edited... 36 spokes

70 lbs = all my gear for sustaining life for more than a year + whatever food I'm carrying. Sounds pretty reasonable to me Sometimes my backpack is nearing that range, but that would include food for 10 days. I guess on tours, you buy food nearly daily?

I'll keep looking. If you guys see or know of anything near Atlanta, please let me know.

Monster Pete

Sound advice here. A lot of these bikes were bought, ridden a few times, then stashed away in the owner's garage when they decided cycling was too much effort. As such, you can pick them up for next to nothing if you look in the right place, and are usually only in need of a good service. Being a mountain bike, it will be strongly built and well capable of carrying you and your gear on the road. You can't always fit drop bars to them easily, but a trekking bar or flat bar with bolt-on bar ends are reasonable alternatives.

Chris Chicago

trek didnt come out with 900 level mtbs til 89 or so. 850 was top o the line at first I believe. that one above looks to be a 90 however. it's not terrible. fork and main tubes chromoly. exage 300 cranks are nicer than the plastic-y ones they put on true low end. spokes are ucp though.

I'd wait and see what turns up. esp at 100 bucks

steltz02

Can you tell me where this 'right place' is

Ya Chris, I'm going to keep looking. I've sent out a message to all the cycling hoarders I know around here, hopefully something comes back

I will let ya'll know what I come up with.

You guys probably saved me lots of pain, suffering, and money. I'm pretty hard headed, only one dude locally was screaming at me to get a different frame; it wasn't enough. When 10 people in a row said the same thing here, that did the trick. Once again, thank you.

jyl

You're going to have an awesome trip. I am crying a little with envy.

When I said "hardtail" I didn't mean to imply a MTB with a suspension fork. As pointed out, you want a fully rigid MTB, the kind no-one bought after about 1995. Because you will need a front rack with low-rider panniers, and that needs to go on a rigid fork. Carrying a touring load (>40 lb) in just rear panniers will make the bike an incredible pig (I have done that), so distributing the weight is pretty much necessary. Also fenders because you'll be riding in rain and mud sometimes.

By the way, I know that coming from a backpacking background, you are used to carrying 50+ lb on your back. You might be thinking, hey, I can carry lots more on a bike, it's like a mule with wheels! My backingpacking buddy and I made that mistake on our first mountain bike camping trip. Turns out that 50 lbs on a bike is a lot of weight, because you have to pedal and steer and balance that mule. Gram-paring will be just a critical on the bike as on your feet.

Include bright lights and lots of reflective tape on panniers and clothes and helmet, I don't think you will find "bike lanes" where you're going. I would build a front wheel with a generator hub to power those lights. I would use the stock rear wheel, take it apart and rebuild it true and strong. Road tires, not too fat.

Ideally I would use wide drop bars, but the simpler alternative would be bar ends. It is not so much that you need the aero position of drop bars, not with 70 lb of bulging bags, but that you need multiple hand positions or your wrists will scream after hours of riding.

You sound pretty knowledgeable about bike maintenance and repair. I would do an complete overhaul on the bike you buy, do it by yourself, whether it needs it or not. Simply to make sure your hands can fix the bike out there on the road, and that your tool kit has what you'll need. If you started a "what tools should I bring for a two year bike touring trip in South America" I think everyone would have a lot of fun, just don't listen to every reply or you will be pulling a trailer for the toolkit.

Anyway, the bike. Something like:

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/bik/3382857156.html
Roughly 1990, a Bridgestone MB-3. There is no more perfect bike for your needs. Top quality brand, old-school rigid MTB, not too light (read: it will be sturdy), simple thumbshifters, the gearing and brakes will be perfect as is, all you'll need to do is swap tires, add lights, racks, fenders, and bar-ends. Can't see in the pics but I am sure it has fork eyelets. One set of eyelets is enough, you can use the same eyelet for rack and fender. Only $125.

And, not as perfect but I think they'd do:

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/bik/3445293132.html
Raleigh $65. I'd swap the trigger shifters for thumbshifters.

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/bik/3448444976.html
Trek 820 $100

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/bik/3378166265.html
Specialized Rockhopper $150 which is $50 too much but I imaging they'll dicker.

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/bik/3421091704.html
Fisher $195 Seems overpriced by 2X, and I would change the gripshifts for thumbshifters, because when gripshifts start binding and jamming, they are hard to repair.

Finally, I wouldn't want too pretty a bike. Not that you should permanently deface that nice Bridgestone, but maybe wrap the tubes in black electrical tape or something. And then I'd lock the hell out of the bike. Where you're going, that bike will be your car and your house and your biggest possession.

wrk101

That Bridgestone above looks interesting BTW. Negotiate down just a tad, and it becomes extremely enticing.


In a market like Atlanta, deals pop up all of the time. Some may not be very convenient. And if you are willing to drive, look at Birmingham, AL, Athens, GA, Chattanooga, etc. One trick I have used to find deals on Atlanta C/L is look at the third, fourth or fifth page (or even farther back). A lot of buyers only look at the first page. I've contacted sellers in Atlanta on deals, where their bike had been posted two weeks earlier (so we are talking 10 to 15 pages back), and still hadn't sold. Sure, a lot of the older ads are just lazy sellers who neglected to pull down their ads, but there are some deals on there. How long does it take to send a few emails, or make a few calls?

Here's an example 3 or 4 pages back on Atlanta's C/L.

First, its a hybrid (not so great). But look a little closer. It is a drop bar conversion, with 9 speed barcons, AND STI. WTF? Well, if everything works, I could buy it, harvest the STI, drops, fenders, and barcons, return it to its usual orientation (someone buying a hybrid typically does not want drops), sell it in its original state, for close to the current asking price. So I would get a set of STI, a set of barcons, drops, replace them with inexpensive flat bar controls, and be ready to look for another deal. And those are not bottom end STI either. Once you see the two levers on one shifter, you know its above SORA, so probably something pretty decent. It also has been upgraded to 9 speed, so there may be some other decent parts on there.

In my experience, bikes that are still around several pages back, sellers may be open to discounting, making a mediocre deal into a good deal.

Deals on C/L come in three forms:

1. The obvious ones, well described, gone in 5 minutes.

2. The ads that are so poorly written, with little/no description, no size, no brand, no nothing. Bought one yesterday, description was: Racing bike bad paint". Now that is going to draw interest.... I was still surprised it lasted two days. It was a smokin' hot deal, so poorly described, that most did not notice it.

3. Higher priced stuff (buyers on C/L tend to be looking for cheaper bikes). A POS priced at $50 may sell immediately, while a pristine bike, maybe worth $1000, and priced at $600, may sit a long time (particularly if it is not a modern bike).



https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/bik/3455418018.html