Andy_K 

I've got a rim with a missing eyelet. As far as I can tell, this rim has never been used. I don't know what happened to the eyelet. I'm wondering what my options are.

Should I:

a) Just build with it as is and hope for the best
b) Put a washer behind the missing eyelet and build with it
c) Salvage the back of an eyelet from an old rim and build with it
d) Throw it on the scrap heap

?

Any advice would be appreciated. I'd also be interested in hearing speculation as to outcome of any of the first three options.

HillRider

If the rim is in otherwise good shape and is a good quality model, I think "b)" is the best option. Put a decent size washer under the nipple head to reenforce the spoke hole.

mrrabbit 

b.


=8-)

FBinNY 

You could save it with option B, the real question is do you want to.

Before investing your time and effort, lay the rim on a flat surface and see if it's straight. Then measure the diameter in 3 directions to see if it's round. It doesn't have to be perfect, but the more it's out the harder it'll be to build into a true wheel with even tension. The difference in tension needed will be greater for a stiff rim vs. a very light flexible one.

If you do build it and it's a rear, you might want to put the bad hole to the left.

Andy_K 

Thanks for the input!

I should have mentioned that this will be for a front wheel. I put it on my granite kitchen counter and it seems to be very straight. It seems round within my limited ability to measure the diameter of a hoop with no center reference. Any tips for doing this latter measurement?

FBinNY 

The diameter is straight across. You can use the holes as a reference to find the opposite sides and measure across.

dsbrantjr

"The diameter is straight across. You can use the holes as a reference to find the opposite sides and measure across."

Unfortunately a curve which measures a constant diameter can be very much out of round. Here's an article with a good analysis and a clever animation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curve_of_constant_width


This is why they measure submarine hulls' roundness with templates, measuring their diameter is pointless.

Andy_K 

Alright, so it looks like I'm OK. I guess I choose the washer based on the smallest hole that lets the nipple through and the biggest washer that fits in the rim?

HillRider

Yep.

ksisler

Think first! Will not the diameter of a rim be the largest measurement you can make across the rim regardless of where you put the measuring tool? It is just like on a wheel stand; you dial in until it scratches. So put the yardstick or whatever you are using flush on one side of the rim edge and pivot the other end back and forth -- take the longest measure. Then rotate the effort about a 1/3 of the rim around and take it again. Repeat and compare your measures. If not too bad, then its not too bad and you proceed. If it is a mess, then it is a mess and you buy another rim and bend the old one in half for recycling purposes. Since you said it is a front wheel, then use the sight picture of you sliding face planted on the asphalt as the metric for whether you want to proceed with the rim if it is not nearly perfect... Hope that helps.

Andy_K 

It's for off-road use, so I'll be hitting a tree in my mental image. Your measurement method is very helpful though.

canyoneagle

Sounds like you're looking for how to obtain the ERD of the Rim (dimension between opposite nipple seats). Here's a brief overview and method:

[h=3]There is one rim dimension: ERD[/h]
Effective Rim Diameter (ERD) is the diameter on which you want the ends of the spokes to lie. Most people prefer it near the end of the spoke nipple. If you want to measure your own rim (recommended, just to be sure), then follow these instructions:

1. Insert two old spokes into holes exactly opposite each other on the rim. Count holes to be sure.
2. Screw some nipples onto the spokes.
3. Pull them tight and measure dimension A in the figure (the diameter to the edge of the nipples, where the spokes disappears into them). Do this at several spots around the rim and average the measurements.
4. Measure the length of a nipple (dimension B in the figure) and add it twice (once for each nipple).

The result is Effective Rim Diameter (ERD). Thus, ERD = A + 2B.Effective Rim Diameter (ERD) is the dimension you type into the form field for ERD. Of all the dimensions you actually might measure, ERD is the most critical dimension affecting spoke length, so it makes sense to measure it a few times at different places around the rim. Always count to make sure you use spoke holes that are actually opposite each other!

mrrabbit 

1. While folks have preferences, including myself, the nipple and thread behavior mitigates that.
2. You are guessing at the ERD - you are coming up with a diameter that you hope will work. Actual ERD is the distance between the tips of the two spokes in an already built and functional bicycle wheel.

...just nit picking. I think your graphic would be perfect if the nipples were represented at dotted line so that the emphasis is on the spoke ends.

=8-)

ksisler

It is pointless, agreed, unless the task at hand actually depends on measuring and finding the diameter specifically. Subs and bikes are very similar for sure, but answering the question for the OP is also somewhat important (or it has been so said somewhere here on the forum).

The best corrrelation for a bike rim is to flip the OP's bike over and spin the rear wheel and eye ball it to see if it is round (basically if doesn't hump at reasonable RPM). If so, then the template is available. Simply take the rear wheel off and lay that loose front rim overtop of the rim on the rear wheel and give it an eyeball check. If the front rim isn't round it will be really, really obvious and it should not be used on a submarine. Besides, all those darn holes have always been hard to caulk for reliable use down at 2000 meters depth; even if the fit to template was rock solid... [

Bianchigirll 

This may sound stupid but... is this something you just bought at a shop? if so take it back.

Shimagnolo

Hey, I learned something new today!

Andy_K 

It was a clearance item -- discontinued model (Salsa Delgado Cross). I have another wheel I'm trying to match (yes, a style issue), and so I wanted to make this work if at all possible.

fietsbob

I have used an aluminum washer stocked for backing up pop-rivets, in beefing up single wall rims..

but that spoke needs to be longer by the thickness of the washer..
spoke end should still come up flush with the bottom of the slot in the Nip.

with luck maybe some grommets can be found, Brass, nickel plated ,
Leather crafts and shoe repair type stuff. then you have to sort out folding the grommet over.

Andy_K 

So, I thought it would be fun to update this thread to tell everyone what I actually did. Why wait 10 years to update the thread? Well, what I did was let this rim sit in my garage for 10 years. At some point, probably very near the time of my original post, I acquired a matching second rim which also had an eyelet problem. Every couple of years I looked at eyelet kits for sale online, wondering how I'd be able to tell if anything was a cosmetic match or could be reasonably attached to the rims. About five years ago, I bought a pair of Tiagra hubs at an LBS clearance sale. Two or three years ago I went in on a group purchase to buy all the spoke stock from a local Performance Bike shop that was going out of business. Finally, last month I was wanting a set of wheels with wider rims than the Mavic Open Sports I was using with 700x35 Rene Herse Bon Jon Pass tires on one of my bikes, and it dawned on me that I had everything on hand that I needed to build the wheels, so I finally put these guys to use.

You can't really see it in the pictures above, and for some reason I don't seem to have noticed back when I made the original post, but the "missing eyelet" was only missing the outside part. The inner half of the eyelet was still there on both rims, so I didn't even need a washer. I just built the wheel with the rim as it was. I had completely forgotten about most of the advice I got in this thread, including FBinNY's suggestion to put the hole with the missing eyelet on the left side of the rear wheel, but somehow I got lucky and did that by accident.

After one wet ride, the wheels stayed true and nothing exploded.





I tend to be overly obsessed with cosmetic issues, which is why I put off using these rims for 10 years, but honestly now that they're built into wheels I have to really be looking to even find the bad eyelets.

alcjphil

Interesting: It is very seldom that the OP comes back and revives a 10 year old thread, but as the OP you totally get a pass. Thanks for the update