Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

freewheel vs freehub in winter

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

freewheel vs freehub in winter

Old 12-15-12, 01:22 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
freewheel vs freehub in winter

I live in Minneapolis and cycle year-round. Some of you may think that means pretty snow like on a ski slope. That is so cute. 80% of the time it's various forms of WET CR@P mixed with lots of unnecessary sand and corrosive salt, demanded by drivers who imagine it prevents accidents.

I've always used freewheels and when one pulls in wet sand I can disassemble, clean and reassemble it - but it's a PITA. Now I am thinking about new wheels and wondering if a freehub is more resistant to the entrance of sand and grit, and if the freehub mechanism is easier to maintain.
jim hughes is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 02:19 PM
  #2  
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,795

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1763 Post(s)
Liked 1,218 Times in 842 Posts
If you have a cheap Shimano compatible FW, why not consider it an expendable item on your WINTER WHEEL.
$15-20 or so and the pleasure of NOT having to mess with it.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 02:33 PM
  #3  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,620

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3868 Post(s)
Liked 2,559 Times in 1,574 Posts
One way to avoid that problem on your winter bike:

__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 02:38 PM
  #4  
put our Heads Together
 
cerewa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: southeast pennsylvania
Posts: 3,155

Bikes: a mountain bike with a cargo box on the back and aero bars on the front. an old well-worn dahon folding bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Use a freewheel and plan to spend $15 replacing it every year. I cycled through the winter for 2 years in Montreal, and actually one freewheel got me through the two years. It did require re-applying WD-40 periodically. I suspect niether a freehub nor a freewheel is better from the point of view of getting water/salt/ice inside in the first place
cerewa is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 03:31 PM
  #5  
Constant tinkerer
 
FastJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,954
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 75 Posts
Genuine Shimano freehub hubs are just a better design than freewheel hubs, so I'd recommend them by default.

I've had a few freewheels stop spinning well from grit or whatever inside, but I've never had a Shimano freehub go bad. I'm sure they fail eventually, but I've had the same one on my winter bike for many years and the bike sits outside just about all winter long. It's been submerged in a creek as well and having done no maintenance on it I'm happy.
FastJake is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 04:24 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,505

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5681 Post(s)
Liked 2,386 Times in 1,320 Posts
The beauty of using freewheels vs freehubs for a rough service bike is that freewheels are disposable. cutting your potential losses.

However, there's no need to go through the PITA disassembly ritual. If you keep a freewheel well oiled with an oil that stays put, like Chain-L (sorry for the cheap self-promotion) or Phil's, it should make it an entire season before needing service. When it does, you don't need to disassemble. Simply soak in petroleum solvent, (kerosene, diesel fuel, OMS, etc) then flush until it's clean. Shake out the last of the solvent, dry and re-oil.

I do this as needed on my commuter (about once a year) and it takes a few hours, but most of that is the passive soak, so my actual labor time is a few minutes.

BTW- the freewheel protects the right bearing from weather, and I use an improvised boot for the left, so my hub rarely needs service.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 04:34 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I won't discard a $20 assembly like a freewheel if I can fix it. I could put on a new one and be unlucky the next day, be forced to ride through more wet sand and be right back where I started.

I've tried soaking in solvent and flushing with WD40 without success; the sand just didn't dissolve or find it's way out. So I have to disassemble. Using a heavier lube inside the freewheel - I don't know if that would help, or make things worse. How is a chain lube expected to repel sand?
jim hughes is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 04:50 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,505

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5681 Post(s)
Liked 2,386 Times in 1,320 Posts
Originally Posted by jim hughes
I won't discard a $20 assembly like a freewheel if I can fix it. I could put on a new one and be unlucky the next day, be forced to ride through more wet sand and be right back where I started.

I've tried soaking in solvent and flushing with WD40 without success; the sand just didn't dissolve or find it's way out. So I have to disassemble. Using a heavier lube inside the freewheel - I don't know if that would help, or make things worse. How is a chain lube expected to repel sand?
Chain lube doesn't repel sand. But sand doesn't magically enter a freewheel, it's carried in with water. A well lubed freewheel resists water entry, thereby resisting the sand it carries.

As for soaking and flushing, we don't expect sand to dissolve (it won't) but expect it to leave by the same method it used to enter, being carried along with liquid. I suspect that you're having problems because you're not letting the solvent enough time to break down the oils and greases sand may be adhering to. That's why I soak for hours with an occasional swish before making any effort to flush. Ask any homemaker how much easier greasy roasting pans are to clean if soaked first.

If you want an easier method to flush freewheels, here's what I do. Years ago I found a piece of plastic pipe with a close fit to the inside of the outer sprocket (only works with overhanging outer sprockets). I built up the end with electrical tape so I had to jam it in. Then I put a cork into the center hole and pour solvent down the pipe where the only exit is now through the freewheel. This ensures a fast and complete flush. When finished I remove the pipe, but leave in the cork, and pour oil into the center well and let it seep through the freewheel.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 04:52 PM
  #9  
Shimano Certified
 
mtbikerinpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 1,849

Bikes: 92 Giant Sedona ATX Custom

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
I have never had a problem with semi-freehub designs or the frehubs from shimano. By semi-freehub I mean the kind where, as on my Coda hubs, the ratchet ring is in the hub body and the bearings are cartridge as with a freehweel but the cassette and pawls stay on it's own section held on with a lock ring and it's own bearings. Translates to 4 sealed cartridges and a couple seal rings. Good for muddy creeks, snow, rain and whatever else I've ever hit. When the pawls section needs to be cleaned/lubed its just a matter of taking the set screw lockring and it all slides off without a million bits.

The shimano freehubs have always worked well for me as well, but the main bearings of those hubs have required considerably more maintenance than the afore mentioned cartridge design. Sometime back I saw a device used for repacking the freehub mechanism just by squirting it with a certain type of grease gun like fitting. Could be a thing to consider rather than full dissasembly.

The other element to consider is the grade of grease. Most 'bike' grade greases are really for a lack of better term, low grade. An automotive grease such as Valvoline Moly sulphide(red, marine grade) will hold up much better under adversity.
mtbikerinpa is offline  
Old 12-15-12, 05:11 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
kmv2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 705

Bikes: Bianchi circa late 1980s, Surly Cross Check, Kona Blast

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cerewa
It did require re-applying WD-40 periodically.
kmv2 is offline  
Old 12-16-12, 12:51 AM
  #11  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
My ice on the street bike has a 7speed freewheel, MN means using that kit for Months,
where I only need it for a few days..

might be 31F on Monday, so time to pump up the studded tires and charge the Battery pack.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 12-16-12, 05:36 PM
  #12  
What's a bike?
 
adclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 611

Bikes: Bianchi Veloce

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I have had a freehub go bad, but only one. It was on my cross bike after some particularly wet, muddy, and sandy conditions. A replacement Ultegra freehub was still only around $45 so if you wear one out after a few years, no big deal. When mine went bad though, I couldn't get it to loosen up and run smoothly no matter how much I flushed and relubed it.
adclark is offline  
Old 12-17-12, 01:21 PM
  #13  
dbg
Si Senior
 
dbg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Naperville, Illinois
Posts: 2,669

Bikes: Too Numerous (not)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
I've used a shimano 4 speed IGH all winter long for 6 yrs in Chicago winters. No hints of problems. (oops, not an answer to the original question. I always hate it when my wife does that to me. sorry for the spam)
dbg is offline  
Old 12-17-12, 02:17 PM
  #14  
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,795

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1763 Post(s)
Liked 1,218 Times in 842 Posts
Originally Posted by jim hughes
I won't discard a $20 assembly like a freewheel if I can fix it. I could put on a new one and be unlucky the next day, be forced to ride through more wet sand and be right back where I started.

I've tried soaking in solvent and flushing with WD40 without success; the sand just didn't dissolve or find it's way out. So I have to disassemble. Using a heavier lube inside the freewheel - I don't know if that would help, or make things worse. How is a chain lube expected to repel sand?
You won't spend $20 for a new FW IF you can fix it, but apparently, you CAN'T fix it without major disassembly.
However, you'll spend the money for a new wheel set to use on your salted roads.

Doesn't make sense to me......Time is worth something.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 12-17-12, 03:06 PM
  #15  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
They stopped selling Cog replacements for multiple gear freewheels long ago, so after wearing the chain,
and thus wearing the cog teeth .. you just get a new one .. and new chain..

strong axle freewheel hubs make that part reliable.. I used one of Phil's early steel tube aluminum flange
hubs for decades.. loaded for self contained touring..
the great thing by using a stainless steel tube, was the freewheel threads were in steel.
sealed bearings , and a axle that would not break.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 12-17-12, 03:11 PM
  #16  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
Looks like White Ind has seals on the out side of their Single or Dos Freewheels.

but they are close to a C note each..

seem to recall a Felt 1speed 29er coming with a single Cog cassette,
splined on like Shimano's BMX .

of course You can always go with the venerable AW3 IGH.. or S3X with a thread on FW.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 12-17-12, 03:47 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
gyozadude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sunnyvale, California
Posts: 1,180

Bikes: Bridgestone RB-1, 600, T700, MB-6 w/ Dirt Drops, MB-Zip, Bianchi Limited, Nashbar Hounder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've only lived as far north as temperate Vancouver, BC. So it hasn't been that cold. Phil Wood FW grease injector has kept my collection of Suntour FWs and some shimano FWs in great shape. I soak in solvent, spin, soak more, spin to remove stuff, then grease inject. Usually with Phil Wood grease. Stays in place and quiets down the FW. Some folks don't recommend it because it can prevent full engagement of dog/pawl due to grease getting inside. But it really keeps it clean and lubed and protected inside the FW. If you find a cold-weather grease that stays soft in cold temps, and can find a tube to put it in that fits onto the FW grease injector, then that's what I'd probably do. Inject until it oozes out the front, then spin to make sure it still freewheels, and then wipe exterior clean.
gyozadude is offline  
Old 12-17-12, 04:55 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
You won't spend $20 for a new FW IF you can fix it, but apparently, you CAN'T fix it without major disassembly.
However, you'll spend the money for a new wheel set to use on your salted roads.

Doesn't make sense to me......Time is worth something.
I didn't call it a "major" disassembly - just a PITA. The reason for the new wheels is to get wider rims that fit the snow tires. At this point I have a choice, I can stay with freewheels or go to a freehub. I would prefer whichever is less prone to sucking in sand.
jim hughes is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
lasauge
Bicycle Mechanics
6
03-21-19 04:27 PM
Scott Novak
Bicycle Mechanics
0
01-06-15 04:35 AM
nkemp
Bicycle Mechanics
25
01-31-14 04:28 PM
Calexico
Bicycle Mechanics
13
11-27-13 11:49 AM
yannisg
Bicycle Mechanics
11
08-17-13 06:34 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.