onehighlander

Talk about a shocker. Apparently my whole life I've pedaled with the center, or rear of center part of my foot. Granted, I wore a size 10.5 shoe when I was 12, and peaked at size 12.5 a few years later, so it seems logical that since my feet are almost three times the length of the pedal I might naturally gravitate toward a center position. And it was never uncomfortable.

This is the first time I have ever used clips, just getting back into cycling and all. I was very surprised at the seat height increase.

FYI, I use Pedalites at the moment - so no clipless - with their toe clips/cages.

marqueemoon

That is a drastic change by any standard. I suspect it can come down some. Take it easy riding and don't overdo it until you're confident with the new saddle position.

FBinNY 

That seems like a substantial difference. Even with your toes pointed straight down, I doubt the distance from forward of your heel to the ball of your foot is 8". In practice your foot should only be angled down slightly so the vertical height gain from moving your foot back would normally be an inch or two.

Odds are you had your seat too low all these years, but there's also a chance it's too high now. Have a friend observe how you ride, and confirm that your hips don't rock as you pedal (correct height is about as high as possible without hips rocking, or such that you can lift yourself out of the saddle about an inch without stretching while pedaling).

Also there's a good chance your toe clips have your foot pushed too far back. Ideally the ball of your foot should be over the pedal spindle (or close to that). Toe clips come in lengths, but even the longest commonly available is more for a size 10 than for 12.5. If you find your foot is too far back, find blocks of plastic or hardwood and make spacers to mount between the clips and pedals to push the toeclip forward so you have the correct position. (you'll need longer screws).

Anyway, I hope that as you dial in your position, you'll find cycling easier and more comfortable and stay with it for years.

HillRider

I needed to make toeclip spacers for a friend who wears size 14 shoes and nobody makes toeclips anywhere near that long. I made the spacers from stacks of small washers. Toeclip bolts are almost universally M5 so I bought a package of 100 M5 (or #10) washers and stacked them as needed to get the right length. As noted, longer bolts were needed but almost any decent hardware store has M5x.8 bolts in a variety of lenghts.

10 Wheels

Size 14 here:

Cut a small block for wood for a spacer.
Spray paint Black.

jyl

Before you cut the spacer, make sure the planned foot position does not cause "toe overlap". That is where the toe of your shoe blocks the steering of your front wheel. Just get on the bike, propped up in a doorway or something, and try different foot positions. This shouldn't be a problem unless your bike has tight geometry. It is possible to live with toe overlap, but if a very small adjustment of your foot position will avoid the overlap, I'd consider it.

HillRider

Toe overlap is very common even without particularly large feet or oddball frame geometry. My 55 cm Litespeed has it even with relatively normal geometry (73° HTA, 43 mm rake) and my size 9/43 shoes with the cleats centered over the ball of my foot. It's only a problem on very tight turns such as a U-turn in a 2-lane road but it is something to be aware of and sometimes is unavoidable.

Homebrew01

Look up some video clips of bike races and notice how much bend there is in the knee when the foot is at the 6 O'clock position. Is yours a lot different ?
Also, there are some on-line fit calculators to help you get your whole bike set up properly.

Carbonfiberboy 

Setting saddle height should be independent of what sort of pedals or clips you are using. Photos or caculators and tape measure are contraindicated. This is how you do it: With the bike next to a wall or some sort of handhold, mount the bike while wearing your normal cycling shoes. Get in your normal pedaling position. Put your heel on one pedal and rotate the pedals so the pedal with your heel is down and aligned with the seat tube. You heel should just barely touch the pedal with your knee locked and your hips not rocking. Some people like a gap of up to 4mm. No more. Adjust saddle height until this is true. You may have to rotate the pedals a couple more times to make sure you haven't rocked your hips. Now try it with the other foot. Your legs may be different lengths. I set my saddle height by my shorter leg.

Once you've done this, you'll pedal correctly, no matter what sort of pedals you have. As it has been said, if you're using toe clips, you may have to space them out to get the ball of your foot over the pedal spindle. Clipless pedals of course resolve these issues very simply.

jyl

True, but I think a beginner cyclist should try to avoid toe overlap if possible.

HillRider

Yes, but my point was that toe overlap is very common with many sports and racing bikes and unavoidable with them. What you are recommending means picking a specific frame and fork geometry. The only frame types I know of that will completely avoid it are touring, MTB and most cyclocross bikes with their "relaxed" geometry.

Bill Kapaun

Which makes absolutely no allowance for different shoe sizes.
I use a similar method to yours, but add about 1/8" for each shoe size over 8.

FBinNY 

Over my 45 years in the sport, I've seen a number of "precise" methods of determining "correct" seat height. Most are good enough to get you into the ballpark, and the heel on pedal method as good as any, with or without a "correction" factor.

The fact is that there is no perfect method, nor is one needed. Ankle flex can change effective leg length by 2-3" and different people ride with different natural or preferred ankle angles, which makes fractional inch precision meaningless.

jyl

That might be true with particularly small or tightly-angled frames or particularly large feet.

I do not have toe overlap on any of the bikes I ride, in my sig. I wear size 45 bike shoes and use SPD cleats. Among the road bikes, the smallest of those bikes is 52 cm, the largest is 58 cm. (Admittedly two of them are still wall hangers, so I guess I can't really count them.).

If I did have toe overlap on a bike, and was having to make spacers for toe clips anyway, I would try to position my foot a bit more rearward than "ideal" if that eliminated the toe overlap. I'd be willing to go as much as 1/2" rearward if needed. Especially if I was a new rider like the OP and/or rode on dense urban streets. Falling in front of a car due to toe overlap and unfamiliarity with clips is possible and not good.

Myosmith

If the OP has been riding with his feet positioned with the center of his foot over the pedal axis and hasn't had overlap problems, then he should be OK with a few mm added to the length of the toe clip cage. Even with a 5mm spacer he will probably be riding with his feet further back than he has been.

FBinNY 

+1, if the OP hasn't had issues so far, there's no way moving his foot back can make it worse. In any case, the toe-clip issue is overblown, except for fixed wheels. There's no way the front wheel can be turned far enough at speed for overlap to come into play. In low speed parking lot maneuvering it the rider can easily manage it.

HillRider

Apparently you didn't read my description carefully enough. The frame I'm describing is not particularly small (55 cm), does not have tight angles or fork geometry (73° HTA, 43 mm rake), has modest size tires (700x23), I do not have large feet (size 43 shoes) and have the cleats (Speedplay Frogs or Shimano 2-bolt SPD) positioned right under the ball of my foot. Despite all of that, my toes do hit the front tire on hard turns.

marqueemoon

I wear size 13 shoes. MKS LL (XL) toe clips put my feet in the correct position. Those "mini clips" are considerably shorter though.

Reynolds 

I think something is wrong here. For the same rider, an 8" difference in seat height means one of these positions is practically unrideable.

Puget Pounder

It doesn't make sense to me to change your foot position on a pedal, thus changing your whole fit on a bike to avoid toe overlap... Beginner or not, toe overlap does not ruin a good fit. Toe overlap is essentially built into a bike.

And 8 inches? Something is not right in your description.

onespeedbiker

Well for years guys have been trying to convince girls 4" is actually 8"; maybe the OP is just a little confused..(oh lord forgive me for that one)

martinrjensen

just curious, why doesnt' you friend just get some clipless pedals and shoes and be done with it?

well biked

+1

JanMM

OP is using these pedals and apparently proprietary toe clip. https://www.pedalite.com/home.aspx
That doesn't explain the 8" difference.

Retro Grouch 

That's what I think too. Whenever I've found myself making a bike adjustment that "seemed" a little goofy, it always turned out to be wrong.

Do you have a riding buddy? Go out for a ride and, after warming up for about 1/2 hour, ask them to obeserve your body position on the bike. If, when observed from the back, your hips are rocking side-to-side, your saddle is too high. If, when observed from the side your heels are drooping below the pedals, your saddle is too low.