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Old Campagnolo BB trashed. What are my options?

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Old Campagnolo BB trashed. What are my options?

Old 12-27-12, 10:14 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post
OK. *whew*... lots of info here.

Today I searched e*bay and found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160945169962...84.m1423.l2649
Seems like its correct?

Would like to restore it to correct C&V, but not necessary @ this time. Plan is to do a correct restore within next couple years.
So...I'm not opposed to putting in a cartridge (temporarily). Giving me time to search for a better selection.
FWIW...and from what I find on vintage-trek, this bike originally came with Shimano 105. Then, when I bought it years ago, it was a mis-match @ best.

Maybe a cartridge is the best option for right now.

Hmm..

Anyways, here's some measurements I took today.



So, it seems the drive side is longer, correct?
I wouldn't say it was a mismatch, there's really not enough collectibility in this vintage Trek to worry overmuch about full restoration. It's a great bike and a truly fine frame, but they are great riders. People re-purpose them to touring, commuting, city bikes, randonneuring, 650b, what have you. What's important in all these is to get parts that have the correct threading and dimensions, such as English threading, correct BB lengths for the crank, crank that clears the chain stays, et cetera. You have a bunch of compatibility issues to resolve, but that's just how bike building is.
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Old 12-27-12, 11:56 PM
  #27  
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What Road Fan said about a full restoration. Your bike already has Mavic cranks, which is already a problem. And if you retrofit Campy Record cranks, you'll need a shorter spindle.

The Omas looks like a decent shot--ISO taper, English threading, asymmetrical, and adjustable cups on both sides. On the other hand, it's used and the seller won't take returns.

QBP has closeout Campagnolo Centaur cartridge BBs, English threading, 115.5mm length. They're asymmetric, too, made for triple cranksets or frames with oversize seat tubes that need a longer drive side for the front derailleur to clear the frame. MSRP is $110. Your local bike shop should be able to order one.

The Phil Wood solution looks like the most foolproof but the most expensive. You'll need the BB, the cups, and most likely the splined cup tool, because most shops don't have these anymore. Call around before placing your order. The tool is required because the cups are soft and easily destroyed using "improvised" techniques.
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Old 12-28-12, 04:30 AM
  #28  
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ISO taper, 115mm spindle, $25.

English thread

Italian thread

Save your money, get blingy parts where you can show them off.
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Old 12-28-12, 07:49 AM
  #29  
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I hear what you're saying RoadFan. Guess 'restore' means different things for different folks. I was meaning, that I'd eventually like to have a nice mid-to-upper level full group on it.
And the frame is showing is age.
So, am planning now to get it addressed, before major issues come up.
Shopping / deciding on full group, etc.
The BB issue came up doing winter maintenance...

So, here's my decision on the BB.
Not dropping $150+ on a PhilWoods.
Not going the ultra cheap route @ $25 or so.

This--> http://www.cycleclubsports.com/p-256...m-bracket.aspx
Price is good. Seems to be a decent mid-range BB.

Research shows I need Campy tool # 7130036 to install?
Here it is on velomine--> http://www.velomine.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=806

Seems to be the same freewheel-cassette Park / Shimano tool I've already got?
Is the Campagnolo one specific to their BB's?
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Old 12-28-12, 09:41 AM
  #30  
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Sell the cranks and get something that works with $20 UN xx shimano type BB's and just go for a ride..
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Old 12-28-12, 10:54 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Sell the cranks and get something that works with $20 UN xx shimano type BB's and just go for a ride..
+1
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Old 12-28-12, 12:32 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post
I hear what you're saying RoadFan. Guess 'restore' means different things for different folks. I was meaning, that I'd eventually like to have a nice mid-to-upper level full group on it.
And the frame is showing is age.
So, am planning now to get it addressed, before major issues come up.
Shopping / deciding on full group, etc.
The BB issue came up doing winter maintenance...

So, here's my decision on the BB.
Not dropping $150+ on a PhilWoods.
Not going the ultra cheap route @ $25 or so.

This--> http://www.cycleclubsports.com/p-256...m-bracket.aspx
Price is good. Seems to be a decent mid-range BB.

Research shows I need Campy tool # 7130036 to install?
Here it is on velomine--> http://www.velomine.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=806

Seems to be the same freewheel-cassette Park / Shimano tool I've already got?
Is the Campagnolo one specific to their BB's?
The only major issue likely with a high-quality steel frame over time is rust, and only then if it is not protected. If you have it protected from rust it will not change significantly over time except due to abnormal mechanical stresses, such as crashing, crushing tubes, creasing tubes, or causing cracks by deliberate abuse. If you just ride such a frame and protect it from rust, it will remain the way it is for the rest of your life. Really.

Oh yeah: Don't store it in a wet barn where animals will pee on it repeatedly. That stuff is acidic. If it doesn't stay wet, get acid-drenched, crushed and bent, or weakened (thinned) by rust, you don't ahve any "major issues that will come up." You just have a good frame waiting to be built and ridden. This is why people used to say "steel is real." It's NOT a temporary material.

That BB, in terms of bearing quality and workmanship, is as good as anything else; it's not midrange, but a very high-quality part - I have one on my 1984 Trek 610. I think you found the right tool, too! When you install the crank arms on the ends of the BB and slowly bring the torque up, check that the clearance between the crank arm and the chainstay is always several millimeters. 1 mm is most likely too tight for comfort. Don't try to "tighten up these clearances" by over torquing. Do you have a torque wrench? Overtorqueing is one way to destroy your Mavic crank, and so is undertorquing.
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Old 12-28-12, 01:27 PM
  #33  
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heh. my old all campy bike has a Swiss thread BB shell, ugh. there's a campy nuevo record in there from circa 1980, thats still in great shape.
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Old 12-28-12, 02:20 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post
OK. *whew*... lots of info here.

Today I searched e*bay and found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160945169962...84.m1423.l2649
Seems like its correct?

Would like to restore it to correct C&V, but not necessary @ this time. Plan is to do a correct restore within next couple years.
So...I'm not opposed to putting in a cartridge (temporarily). Giving me time to search for a better selection.
FWIW...and from what I find on vintage-trek, this bike originally came with Shimano 105. Then, when I bought it years ago, it was a mis-match @ best.

Maybe a cartridge is the best option for right now.

Hmm..

Anyways, here's some measurements I took today.



So, it seems the drive side is longer, correct?
ya, way too much.

just go the lbs and get a shimano cartridge BB that's close to the length of spindle you already have. tell them you may be back if it's the wrong length.

repeat until satisfied...
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Old 12-28-12, 02:49 PM
  #35  
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all Shimano stuff is JIS, The crank in question is ISO. taper fit is different, though both are 2 degree..

so fit a JIS crank and then the JIS type BB will work.
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Old 12-28-12, 04:06 PM
  #36  
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Here's a radical idea. Rebuild it with loose balls and see how it feels.

Unless you ride lots of miles a long way from home on it.
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Old 12-28-12, 04:36 PM
  #37  
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RoadFan: Yeah, it is showing some small rust issues. Ive had it about 7 years. But that leaves lots of years before...
Not rusted out by any means. But there are a few spots on the rear triangle where the paint is bubbling.
It still gets lots of miles, but its not deliberately ridden in the wet anymore.

Looks like the Campy BB I got will last for awhile then. Likely through the frame resto process later on.

Cool.

Appreciate everyones suggestions.

**Yes, I have the correct torque wrench.
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Old 12-28-12, 04:38 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
all Shimano stuff is JIS, The crank in question is ISO. taper fit is different, though both are 2 degree..
so fit a JIS crank and then the JIS type BB will work.
Or... fit a ISO BB, right? Seems that's the most cost effective way to go.
While shopping, I found plenty of new ISO BB's, for way less than a new JIS Shimano crank.
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Old 12-28-12, 04:56 PM
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I'd buy a new Campagnolo Veloce ISO cartridge BB. You will not have any trouble with the 115.5 length, I have done it myself.
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Old 12-28-12, 06:50 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post
Or... fit a ISO BB, right? Seems that's the most cost effective way to go.
While shopping, I found plenty of new ISO BB's, for way less than a new JIS Shimano crank.
Umm, you do know that the one you picked out is an ISO BB, right? Stop thinking this part of it. But the Veloce might be cheaper than the Centaur, and if it's 68 mm and 115.5, you would be golden with that one, too. Takes a different tool!. I've seen the Centaur BB for as low as $35 and as high as $100 (a very ambitious seller!).
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Old 12-28-12, 06:52 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post
RoadFan: Yeah, it is showing some small rust issues. Ive had it about 7 years. But that leaves lots of years before...
Not rusted out by any means. But there are a few spots on the rear triangle where the paint is bubbling.
It still gets lots of miles, but its not deliberately ridden in the wet anymore.

Looks like the Campy BB I got will last for awhile then. Likely through the frame resto process later on.

Cool.

Appreciate everyones suggestions.

**Yes, I have the correct torque wrench.
There are a number of threads here and elsewhere about de-rusting and touching up bike frames. Just do it.
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Old 12-28-12, 08:00 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
ISO taper, 115mm spindle, $25.

English thread

Italian thread

Save your money, get blingy parts where you can show them off.
Out of stock.
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Old 12-28-12, 08:08 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post

This--> http://www.cycleclubsports.com/p-256...m-bracket.aspx
Price is good. Seems to be a decent mid-range BB.

Research shows I need Campy tool # 7130036 to install?
Here it is on velomine--> http://www.velomine.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=806

Seems to be the same freewheel-cassette Park / Shimano tool I've already got?
Is the Campagnolo one specific to their BB's?
Nice find. The Campy splines are a bit different, but it is the same tool for the bottom bracket and cassette lockring.

A bike shop can install it for a lot less than the Campy tool costs. Or you could get the Park version, here: http://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?...jor=6&minor=11
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Old 12-29-12, 12:21 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post

Looks like the Campy BB I got will last for awhile then. Cool.

Appreciate everyones suggestions.
You do? Because the majority of the responses here have been misguided, erroneous or excessively complex or expensive. Example: Phil Wood, which is overrated and vastly overpriced.

First off, you have a standard-issue Campy Record English BB. It has the standard length and drive-side offset for the era. ISO taper - obviously. This was the most common BB spec for high-end bikes for many years. They are still relatively easy to find. Many other BBs of the era were built to the same spec, including Gipiemme and Sugino. Do not use a JIS spindle, like Shimano - your crankarms will stick out several mm farther than you want.

Your spindle is pooched - kaput. Your cups may still be good; they are generally a lot harder to kill. The balls are likely dead, but since they will cost you all of $5 to replace, do it as a matter of course.

Try finding another compatible spindle. My recommendation is a Sugino MW-68. Many older shops should have these, or Ebay. I have several pounds of old spindles found in the drawers of shops.

Plan B should be a more recent Campy 115mm unit designed for triples. $40 is reasonable.

Plan C: a new crankset and compatible BB. At a local community bike Co-op this should not set you back more than $100 for something used but still good.
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Old 12-29-12, 02:08 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post
OK. *whew*... lots of info here.

Today I searched e*bay and found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160945169962...84.m1423.l2649
Seems like its correct?

Would like to restore it to correct C&V, but not necessary @ this time. Plan is to do a correct restore within next couple years.
So...I'm not opposed to putting in a cartridge (temporarily). Giving me time to search for a better selection.
FWIW...and from what I find on vintage-trek, this bike originally came with Shimano 105. Then, when I bought it years ago, it was a mis-match @ best.

Maybe a cartridge is the best option for right now.

Hmm..

Anyways, here's some measurements I took today.



So, it seems the drive side is longer, correct?
Okay, I've checked my manual (been away on vacation) and it appears the measurements for your spindle are actually 31/ 49.5 /34= 114.5mm which is for a thick cup (as I explained before, yours is a thick cup with the spindle hole spirals referred to as rifled. The bottom bracket you have is the standard BB for a post 1978 Nuovo Record Crankset. The near same size BB with a thin cup is 28/54.5/32 which is an old Record/ Gran Sport (both however are marked 68-SS)*. If you would prefer a cartridge BB, these numbers show your spindle has 3-4mm offset. With a 115.5 mm Veloce/Centaur cartridge you should be able to get a good chainline by using a 2-3mm spacer on the driver's side. Otherwise the above spindles are what you will need for a loose ball BB; if you find the latter you will also need the cups..

*There a number of Campy loose ball BB that would work but you would need the measurements to know for sure; something you usually have to ask for.

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 12-29-12 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 12-29-12, 06:24 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post

Your spindle is pooched - kaput. Your cups may still be good; they are generally a lot harder to kill. The balls are likely dead, but since they will cost you all of $5 to replace, do it as a matter of course.

Try finding another compatible spindle. My recommendation is a Sugino MW-68. Many older shops should have these, or Ebay. I have several pounds of old spindles found in the drawers of shops.

Plan B should be a more recent Campy 115mm unit designed for triples. $40 is reasonable.

Plan C: a new crankset and compatible BB. At a local community bike Co-op this should not set you back more than $100 for something used but still good.
Ok, I agree with this order of priorities, given that spindles can be found at reasonable price. I haven't found that to be the case in the admittedly rare occasions I have to look for Campy spindles. I didn't know that the MW68 is a good replacement for his spindle.

I haven't pressed the point about the cup condition. It would be nice to see a decent photo (well lit, well focused, even if not a super close-up) of the races of both cups.
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Old 12-30-12, 01:50 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Try finding another compatible spindle. My recommendation is a Sugino MW-68. Many older shops should have these, or Ebay. I have several pounds of old spindles found in the drawers of shops.
You're right about a lot of stuff, especially the pooching of the old spindle, but I could only find 109mm Sugino spindles and no Campy spindles at all, through the usual sources. It's been a couple decades since Campy made a loose-ball bottom bracket. I've found several BBs with short spindles, and short spindles, and one set with a 124.5mm spindle (strictly for triples), but no 114-115mm spindles in stock.

If you're interested in pursuing the NOS/used channel, give these guys a jingle: http://www.renehersestore.com/servlet/StoreFront. 114.5mm spindles are out of stock, but they might be finding some more. And there's always eBay.
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Old 12-31-12, 08:30 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post

You do? Because the majority of the responses here have been misguided, erroneous or excessively complex or expensive. Example: Phil Wood, which is overrated and vastly overpriced.
Yup. I do.
I may not be a professional mechanic, but think I've got the ability to sift through (quickly skipped the Phil), and find what works, for me, my budget, my riding style, and mechanic ability.

<<<Your spindle is pooched - kaput. Your cups may still be good; they are generally a lot harder to kill. The balls are likely dead, but since they will cost you all of $5 to replace, do it as a matter of course.>>>

Cups are shot. Thus a search for cartridge replacement.

<<< Do not use a JIS spindle, like Shimano - your crankarms will stick out several mm farther than you want.
Plan B should be a more recent Campy 115mm unit designed for triples. $40 is reasonable.>>>

So, my Campy Centaur that I ordered will work fine.
This--> http://www.cycleclubsports.com/p-256...m-bracket.aspx

We'll see how the install goes, when it arrives!
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Old 12-31-12, 09:37 AM
  #49  
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Too late to help but Lickton's in Chicago has the 115.5 mm Veloce bb for $40: http://www.lickbike.com/productpage....B='0212-13'
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Old 12-31-12, 01:45 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by grasscutter View Post

So, my Campy Centaur that I ordered will work fine.
This--> http://www.cycleclubsports.com/p-256...m-bracket.aspx

We'll see how the install goes, when it arrives!
Keep in mind that if you install the Centaur BB and the crank is too far inward, you can always put a spacer behind the drivers side rim of the BB and space it out.
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