I have been attempting to turn the fixed cup(drive side/right) out by turning the sheldon home made tool toward the back of the frame. I'm wondering if that is the correct direction and how to tell which is correct. I have sheared off two 5/16" case hardened bolt attempting this!
Additional thoughts would be appreciated!

The head badge does say Birmingham. I will not have use for the cranks or the chain ring. I'm wondering if they might be worth keeping. The chain ring has the Hercules H in it!

Mechanic's first rule of stuck parts: Push hard, push a little harder, stop and think.

Left-hand threaded fixed cups unscrew clockwise, looking from the drive side. I don't know what you mean by "toward the back of the frame" - it's better to tell us if you are turning clockwise or counterclockwise, and which side of the frame you are standing on.

For a left-handed thread you should be facing the drive side of the frame and be turning the bolt clockwise to loosen the fixed cup, as Sheldon explains in the section after the description of the tool.

Keep it and pass it on to the next owner of the bike.

-G

I'm going to try to "restore " the head badge and put it back on the bike!

By "towards the back of the frame" I meant: I am standing on the drive side, the frame is up with the seat tube on the bench and the rear to my right. I am turning clockwise toward the back. I am going to make an attempt at my version of the "sheldon" tool using some different and heavier components.

(pure personal opinion, its worth whatcha paid for it...)

the more you 'restore' something like that head badge, the greater the chance of making it worse. the patina of age has more value than making it look shiny/new. if its really grody, maybe put it in an ultrasonic cleaner (since its off the bike), then rivet it back on.

:deal:

I think I agree on the "restore" thing! It's not so grody as it is paint off so that the detail is difficult to see. I have been careful in cleaning it so far primarily lightly cleaning.

You're also turning clockwise toward the front - if you're going backwards at the top of the circle, you're going forwards at the bottom. That's why "clockwise" and "anti-clockwise" are generally better words to use in this situation.

You want to unscrew the fixed cup by turning it clockwise (looking at it from the outside of the BB shell, facing towards the side it's threaded into), so I think what you're doing is correct.

Again, this is why clockwise/cclocwise is best. I can only guess what you mean by the frame is "up," or the seat tube is "on" the bench, or the difference between "the rear" and "the back." I am not making fun of you, it's just that "clockwise facing the drive side of the frame" is many fewer words and more clear. Some people do not value their time greatly, or just want to do it themselves, but at this point if I were in your position would be taking the bike to a shop to have them remove the fixed cup in about 5 minutes (including handling time). I happen to have a fixed cup tool but few are in that position.

Ok...here's the thing, I 'm one of THOSE people that just "wants to do it themselves! I'll get it figured out now that I am straight on the clockwise/C. Clockwise thing. So...I"m going to make my version of a "fixed cup tool" using some auto suspension washers and bigger case hardened bolt, etc.
I do appreciate the thought of the LBS helping out and there are some good ones here in "cracker country." I;ll document the progress!

Op... the the fixed to hardware store & put a sae fine bolt up to it to fine if cup is 24tpi. Velo Orange has solution BBs w/o threads

I used that tool just yesterday at my bike co-op. A friend wanted me to refurbish the bottom bracket on their '90s era mongoose. The bike itself was okay except that the bb was terribly loose. I got the fixed side off easily enough but the adjustable cup was frozen hard core. It was one of the kind that has the 6 spanner holes and no flats for the wrench. First we got the lock ring off and then we lifted the frame up and put the adjustable cup into the vise and cranked down. Tried braking the cup loose using the frame as leverage and all we did was almost break the vise and lift the able.

So yesterday I got a grade 8 bolt in 9/16ths size with matching grade 8 nut and 3 lock washers and put it into the adjustable cup. Put my half inch socket with short extension into the BB shell and then tightened it down. Used a big ole breaker bar and it ended up breaking the cup free and I was able to save the bike. Never came across one so stuck as that one but all is well now.

See, size does matter! The fixed cup ids still FIXED! I will try the bigger bolt. The ones I picked up were not 9/16".

Make sure you get grade 8 and not grade 5. It would be a pisser to break the bolt while attempting.

The key about this is that since I was working on the adjustable side not the fixed side, I had to loosen the cup in the normal counter clockwise fashion. Normally if you fix a bolt to the cup and try to remove it from outside the frame, you won't get anywhere because the tool will loosen before the cup loosens. So I put my socket and extension INSIDE the bb shell and then I used the breaker bar to tighten the bolt down which caused the adjustable cup to break free in the proper motion. Use logic and reason to understand that the tool is going to work best if it is tightening down the bolt and nut and washers in the direction that you want to remove the cup since as you tighten the tool more, its trying to loosen the cup at the same time.

I understand about the clockwise and c clockwise and it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that as I "crank" on this thing it appears to be tightening it in the BB shell.
So...I drew a diagram of the existing condiiton and it looks like to me that in order to "screw' this thing out I have to turn it C Clockwise.
Note the direction of the threads relative to the face of the BB shell. I have exaggerated the pitch, etc. to illustrate the condition. With the frame sitting on the floor, bench, what ever, the arrows indicate the direction. If I turn or tighten clockwise I am turning toward the front of the frame and thathttp://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=299990 appears to be tightening the cup in the shell. I need some directional help here!!!

Fixed cups on are left-hand threaded* - they unscrew clockwise. As you tighten the bolt by turning clockwise from the outside of the BB shell (on the drive side), friction with the bolt transfers the turning force to the cup, and turns it clockwise.

"turning forwards" is a bad term to use - if you make a full rotation (clockwise or anticlockwise), you'll move the wrench both "forward" and "backward" at different points.


*at least on british/ISO and Raleigh threads they are

Have you tried any heat? By that I mean a propane torch. You could put the flame on the center of the bearing. Have you started to move it and can you wiggle it back and forth?

I've had some luck with this stuff.........YMMV
 

If what you are drawing is the "fixed cup", then something is odd. Normally the fixed cup has the solid ring around the end of the threads to lock it down against the BB shell when it is fully tightened. What you have pictured is that the threads extend all the way to the end of the cup with no lip. Don't get confused and think I'm referring to the locking ring, that isn't an issue right now. If the part you are trying to unscrew does need a separate lock ring to keep it locked in place, then that is the adjustable cup and not the fixed cup.

Anyway, so if you have confirmed that you need to loosen it counter clockwise which is normal for most bolts, then you will need to do what I did with sheldons tool. You can't really loosen the cup with the bolt and washers and nut from the outside the BB shell because all you will do is loosen up the nut and bolt before you ever get enough torque to loosen the cup.

So what you do is put a 1/2drive socket of appropriate size INSIDE the BB shell and then I used a short 2 inch 1/2 drive extension and then put a 1/2 inch drive breaker bar on the socket/extension combo. Then I used a pipe on the breaker bar and turned the whole assembly (sheldon's tool) CLOCKWISE which meant that it would tighten the bolt and nut assembly in the fixed cup. It also would be putting all the force in moving the cup counterclockwise when viewed from outside the frame as in your picture. Once I broke my cup free and took it out and removed the tool, it had exerted so much force on the washers that one of them was bent into a concave shape against the cup and the nut had made a solid impression in the washer. That is how much force was needed to finally break the cup free.

Well, the OP's bike is a Hercules, and those old British bikes did things differently. Not only the odd-ball 26tpi bottom bracket and assorted Whitworth threaded fasteners in various places, but the fixed cups sometimes lacked that shoulder you mention (both my Superbe and my wife's Sports are like this), instead expecting that the fixed cup be driven into the shell until it bottoms out at the end of the threads. The reverse threading on the cup ensures it will stay in place in use. This type of cup often has 5/8" flats for a tool to grasp, both on the adjustable and the fixed cups. For these either the Park HCW-11:

http://ridebrooklynny.com/images/lib...cw_11_09_m.jpg

or the BikeSmithDesign bottom bracket tool work best:

http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/BBTool/BBT1.jpg

OK...here's the deal! After scaring my dog to death, teaching him some new words, making the neighbors think "WTF" is going on in my garage...I even learned some NEW and BETTER uses for numerous expletives that I must admit were VERY SOPHISTICATED :thumb:, I have successfully "pulled out" I mean extracted the fixed cup from the bb shell of this old Hercules frame. With the proper "appendage", I mean piece of pipe on the rachet handle and persistence it just backed out! I even amaze myself sometimes! I do THAN ALL all for the words of instruction and "encouragement and I have to thank the numerous "malt based beverages" that contributed to my success in this "most excellent adventure" in leverage, patience and the proper use of a piece of pipe!
THANKS ALL AGAIN!
Now I'm sure that all of the participants in my success will be encouraged to know that there are certainly more questions to pose in this "Herculian" adventure.

For and OLD GROUCHY GUY I discovered that a new threaded BB will probably NOT work on this Herculian project! After removing the fixed cup and cleaning the threads I came up with what appears to be pieces of thread! Hey...a country western song: "I unscrewed it and all I got was a couple of pieces of thread."
Seriously it appears that perhaps the cup was cross threaded and the mock up Sugino that threaded in nicely on the adj. side doesn't fit as nicely on the fixed(drive) side. There appears to be SLOP in the fitment. I am conducted technical discussions with VO about there threadless BB as a solution.
Are there any thoughts about this solution?

I think it's worth an attempt to cleanup the threads by chasing them with the proper tap. Most good bike shops should have the necessary tools to do this.

Good luck.

A threadless cartridge is one option, and probably the easiest to implement. Another is to ream and tap the shell for Italian thread,and then use Italian thread BB components. If I were in your situation, I'd do the threadless cartridge first.