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my riding buddy needs help...

Old 02-05-13, 06:02 PM
  #1  
ruirui
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my riding buddy needs help...

my friend is riding with dura ace 7900 groupset on his bike. with 11/28 in the back and 53/39 in the front, he's been having both knee problems on hills and even long rides.

he heard about my setup 50/34 and 11/34 and swapped out the front to a dura ace compact crank too. but now he's thinking about changing the back to add a 11/34 cassette.

will this Shimano Dura Ace CN-7901 Chain work on deore 11/34? I know he will need to change the RD, but how about his FD, would that need to be changed out too?
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Old 02-05-13, 06:07 PM
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FD should be OK; there are compact-specific FD's but I would think the shifting improvement over a normal double FD would be minimal.

I have a Deore RD shifting 10-speed on an 11-32 cassette on one of my road bikes. 11-34 should work OK, too. Dura-ace chain would be fine, as long as it is long enough.
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Old 02-05-13, 06:14 PM
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awesome.. thank you for the quick reply. i'll let him know... then he can decide if he want to change it or not.. hehe i've converted him from mt. biker into a roadie.. and now he's blaming me for the bottomless pit i've pushed him into.. hahahaha
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Old 02-05-13, 06:18 PM
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he's adding 6 teeth in back and lost 3 in front, for a net gain of 3 teeth. his ideal chain should be 2 links longer than the ideal chain length for his original setup.

if the current FD is handling the 50-34 fine now, he's good to go there. his new rear derailleur needs to be able to handle (50-34) + (34-11) == 39T total difference between big+big and little+little? thats pretty extreme. me, I would loose that 11T and try to find a 13-34 or similar.

me, I would likely have been looking at a Ultegra 52-39-30 triple crank, and a narrower range cassette, like a 13-26. but the triple very well might have required a new FD -and- RD, and there are no duraace triples.
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Old 02-06-13, 07:11 AM
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You don't say how many cogs on the cassette but if he has knee problems there's no reason to stay with an 11 tooth in the rear if a 12 small is available. Even going down to a 50 tooth front gives an almost useless 122 inch high gear.

On an editorial note it's a shame that manufacturers used the advantage of more cogs to extend the upper range of gears instead of offering tighter clusters (meaning smaller jumps between cogs). Stock cassettes beginning with a 12 or 13 tooth small cog are very hard to come by, especially in the better quality level. The 11 tooth cog may be of use with a compact crankset but all it does for road bikes is encourage mashing high gears and the resultant quicker wear, less efficient riding and possible knee problems.
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Old 02-06-13, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cycle_maven View Post
FD should be OK; there are compact-specific FD's but I would think the shifting improvement over a normal double FD would be minimal.
Shimano never offered compact-specific road front derailleurs and Campy did only for a short time then dropped them as unnecessary.
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Old 02-06-13, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Shimano never offered compact-specific road front derailleurs and Campy did only for a short time then dropped them as unnecessary.
I was thinking of the IRD derailleur-

https://www.interlocracing.com/cdfrtder.html

But I've never heard any feedback about whether it's much of an improvement...
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Old 02-06-13, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
On an editorial note it's a shame that manufacturers used the advantage of more cogs to extend the upper range of gears instead of offering tighter clusters. Stock cassettes beginning with a 12 or 13 tooth small cog are very hard to come by, especially in the better quality level.
A couple thoughts... first - methinks you are looking very hard.

https://www.speedgoat.com/Catalog.asp...16841&Root=Cat
https://www.speedgoat.com/Catalog.asp...33593&Root=Cat
https://www.cambriabike.com/Ird-Elite...rome-1225T.asp
https://www.cambriabike.com/Shimano-U...lver-1223T.asp
https://www.cambriabike.com/Campagnol...225T-11Spd.asp

Secondly, a wider range is exactly what many riders are looking for... could this be why wider range cassettes are more common?
I think when a less-than-elite cyclists (such as myself) has trouble getting up a hill, it is usually because the lowest gear is not low enough, not because the step between the 9th and 10th cog is too big.
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Old 02-06-13, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
Secondly, a wider range is exactly what many riders are looking for... could this be why wider range cassettes are more common?
I think when a less-than-elite cyclists (such as myself) has trouble getting up a hill, it is usually because the lowest gear is not low enough, not because the step between the 9th and 10th cog is too big.
I completely agree but many "wide range" cassettes include a nearly useless 11T or almost as useless 12T first position cog and, therefore have to eliminate some very useful intermediate cogs. My pet-peeve is that the first cog sacrificed is the extremely useful 16T. I question if anyone who needs a 32 or 34T big cog can possibly use an 11T small cog.
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Old 02-06-13, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
A couple thoughts... first - methinks you are looking very hard.

Secondly, a wider range is exactly what many riders are looking for... could this be why wider range cassettes are more common?
I think when a less-than-elite cyclists (such as myself) has trouble getting up a hill, it is usually because the lowest gear is not low enough, not because the step between the 9th and 10th cog is too big.
First, none of the links you provided were for a wide range cassette.

Secondly, you missed my point entirely, as the discussion was of wide range cassettes, which I have myself. With the advent of more cogs manufacturers made the 1st position cog size on stock cassettes smaller. Back when we had 5-6 speed freewheels it was 14 or 13 teeth, now it's 11 or less. Thus my statement that they extended the high range instead of offering more options with closer spacing. One may be able to find 12-30+ or 13-30+ cassettes in a 9 or 10 speed but I have seen very few, and the HG-50 is the typical grade available for a 9 speed.

Using a larger initial cog is not about a smaller jump from 9 to 10 necessarily, but rather about smaller percentage jumps between cogs, especially for the larger cogs. An 11-34 cassette has jumps of close to 15% for the largest cog positions. If one started with a 13 tooth cog the jumps would be in the 10% range, and there is a smaller percentage jump at every single gear.
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Old 02-06-13, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
I question if anyone who needs a 32 or 34T big cog can possibly use an 11T small cog.
Sure, you can - it's useful for pedaling downhill at 35mph, so that you need the 32 or 34 for the next uphill - because you did not have enough sense to coast or freewheel pedal at that speed.
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There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

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Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
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Old 02-06-13, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
Sure, you can - it's useful for pedaling downhill at 35mph, so that you need the 32 or 34 for the next uphill - because you did not have enough sense to coast or freewheel pedal at that speed.

yeah, sigh. hey, its a higher gear, it must go faster!!

sadly, I see people quite regularly with such gearing using the MIDDLE front with their 11 rear as their 'high gear'. I try and explain the bigger the cogs, the less loss and longer the drive train will last, and they stare at me blankly. but a 48-14 is just about exactly the same gear as a 38-11, and will last MUCH longer. my 3x8 hybrid came with a 11-32 or something, which was just silly, and I found myself wishing their were more gears in the midrange, so swapped it for a 13-26 and am much happier. for me, 48:13 is still a downhill only gear, but on the flats with a slight tail wind, I /can/ maintain a spin in the 48:15 next gear, and most of the time I'm in the middle of the cassette with the 48 front. I drop to the 38 front on short to medium hills, and the 28 gets used only on long-steep hills.
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