Lacing a 36 hole hub...!
02-06-13, 04:59 PM
#26
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One thing to keep in mind: if you're reusing the front hub in your other thread, it's wise to follow the same spoking pattern that was used before. You can tell by the indents on the sides of the spoke holes.
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02-06-13, 05:01 PM
#27
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Adding brass spoke-washers might also be a good suggestion!
- Wil
- Wil
02-06-13, 07:50 PM
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I just looked at the hub.There is a definite pattern of indent. I can see how that would make a difference!
02-06-13, 07:51 PM
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02-06-13, 08:01 PM
#30
S'Cruzer
spoke washers are used with the spoke heads, against the holes in the hubs.
i found this picture online...
I would imagine they are good to use when the L end of the spoke is longer than the hub flange thickness
edit: and in fact, this wheelbuilder says exactly that.
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dtspokes.htm
i found this picture online...
I would imagine they are good to use when the L end of the spoke is longer than the hub flange thickness
edit: and in fact, this wheelbuilder says exactly that.
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dtspokes.htm
Last edited by pierce; 02-06-13 at 08:40 PM.
02-06-13, 08:14 PM
#31
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Nope, they sit under the heads of the spokes, and to quote from Gerd Schraner's fine treatise on Wheelbuilding (mentioned elsewhere, and available as a .PDF file)
"…as I mentioned in a previous chapter, most makes of hubs are equipped with oversized holes in the factory. If spokes have play when attached to these hubs, then they will break when subjected to long term loads. The user then presumes that either the spoke was no good in the first place, or the wheelbuilder didn't do his job properly. Blame everyone, but not the hub manufacturer, right? So it is up to us, the wheelbuilders, to correct the mistakes of those hub manufacturers which means that the solution has to be applied before the problem even occurs. Spokes with a diameter at the elbow of 2.0 mm are usually used for high quality wheels. The ideal spoke hole diameter in the hub flange is 2.3 mm and this is usually ideal for 2.0 mm elbow diameter. In order to prevent the play which causes damage to the spokes, professional wheelbuilders use special brass washers (DT Praline., and we always use them when the difference between the diameter of the spoke and the diameter of the hub's spoke hole is greater than 0.3 mm. Of course, it is not necessary to measure this everytime a spoke is installed. Just insert a spoke into the hub and move it to see if any play can be detected (tactile test… ) If the smallest amount of play can be detected, or when in doubt, use a washer beneath every spoke head. The tension causes the washer to adopt a funnel shape as the washer centers the spoke in the hole . That also increases the thickness of the flange. If spokes equipped in this manner need to be straightened during lacing, the spoke material is not damaged. And the result is a spoke hub joint which is guaranteed free of unnecessary play. The rules are therefore: Always use a washer - when there is any tactile play, - when using 1.8 mm spokes and - when in doubt. Using washers will slightly reduce the length of the spokes, and this can be compensated by selecting spokes that are 1 mm longer. You seldom see a professional, manually-built wheel without washers. They don't just shine like gold, they're worth their weight in gold to the wheelbuilders and riders too! "
(lifted from Gerd Schraner's book) HTH -
- Wil
"…as I mentioned in a previous chapter, most makes of hubs are equipped with oversized holes in the factory. If spokes have play when attached to these hubs, then they will break when subjected to long term loads. The user then presumes that either the spoke was no good in the first place, or the wheelbuilder didn't do his job properly. Blame everyone, but not the hub manufacturer, right? So it is up to us, the wheelbuilders, to correct the mistakes of those hub manufacturers which means that the solution has to be applied before the problem even occurs. Spokes with a diameter at the elbow of 2.0 mm are usually used for high quality wheels. The ideal spoke hole diameter in the hub flange is 2.3 mm and this is usually ideal for 2.0 mm elbow diameter. In order to prevent the play which causes damage to the spokes, professional wheelbuilders use special brass washers (DT Praline., and we always use them when the difference between the diameter of the spoke and the diameter of the hub's spoke hole is greater than 0.3 mm. Of course, it is not necessary to measure this everytime a spoke is installed. Just insert a spoke into the hub and move it to see if any play can be detected (tactile test… ) If the smallest amount of play can be detected, or when in doubt, use a washer beneath every spoke head. The tension causes the washer to adopt a funnel shape as the washer centers the spoke in the hole . That also increases the thickness of the flange. If spokes equipped in this manner need to be straightened during lacing, the spoke material is not damaged. And the result is a spoke hub joint which is guaranteed free of unnecessary play. The rules are therefore: Always use a washer - when there is any tactile play, - when using 1.8 mm spokes and - when in doubt. Using washers will slightly reduce the length of the spokes, and this can be compensated by selecting spokes that are 1 mm longer. You seldom see a professional, manually-built wheel without washers. They don't just shine like gold, they're worth their weight in gold to the wheelbuilders and riders too! "
(lifted from Gerd Schraner's book) HTH -
- Wil
02-07-13, 05:51 AM
#32
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spoke washers are used with the spoke heads, against the holes in the hubs.
i found this picture online...
I would imagine they are good to use when the L end of the spoke is longer than the hub flange thickness
edit: and in fact, this wheelbuilder says exactly that.
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dtspokes.htm
i found this picture online...
I would imagine they are good to use when the L end of the spoke is longer than the hub flange thickness
edit: and in fact, this wheelbuilder says exactly that.
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/dtspokes.htm
Thanks!
02-07-13, 05:54 AM
#33
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Nope, they sit under the heads of the spokes, and to quote from Gerd Schraner's fine treatise on Wheelbuilding (mentioned elsewhere, and available as a .PDF file)
"…as I mentioned in a previous chapter, most makes of hubs are equipped with oversized holes in the factory. If spokes have play when attached to these hubs, then they will break when subjected to long term loads. The user then presumes that either the spoke was no good in the first place, or the wheelbuilder didn't do his job properly. Blame everyone, but not the hub manufacturer, right? So it is up to us, the wheelbuilders, to correct the mistakes of those hub manufacturers which means that the solution has to be applied before the problem even occurs. Spokes with a diameter at the elbow of 2.0 mm are usually used for high quality wheels. The ideal spoke hole diameter in the hub flange is 2.3 mm and this is usually ideal for 2.0 mm elbow diameter. In order to prevent the play which causes damage to the spokes, professional wheelbuilders use special brass washers (DT Praline., and we always use them when the difference between the diameter of the spoke and the diameter of the hub's spoke hole is greater than 0.3 mm. Of course, it is not necessary to measure this everytime a spoke is installed. Just insert a spoke into the hub and move it to see if any play can be detected (tactile test… ) If the smallest amount of play can be detected, or when in doubt, use a washer beneath every spoke head. The tension causes the washer to adopt a funnel shape as the washer centers the spoke in the hole . That also increases the thickness of the flange. If spokes equipped in this manner need to be straightened during lacing, the spoke material is not damaged. And the result is a spoke hub joint which is guaranteed free of unnecessary play. The rules are therefore: Always use a washer - when there is any tactile play, - when using 1.8 mm spokes and - when in doubt. Using washers will slightly reduce the length of the spokes, and this can be compensated by selecting spokes that are 1 mm longer. You seldom see a professional, manually-built wheel without washers. They don't just shine like gold, they're worth their weight in gold to the wheelbuilders and riders too! "
(lifted from Gerd Schraner's book) HTH -
- Wil
"…as I mentioned in a previous chapter, most makes of hubs are equipped with oversized holes in the factory. If spokes have play when attached to these hubs, then they will break when subjected to long term loads. The user then presumes that either the spoke was no good in the first place, or the wheelbuilder didn't do his job properly. Blame everyone, but not the hub manufacturer, right? So it is up to us, the wheelbuilders, to correct the mistakes of those hub manufacturers which means that the solution has to be applied before the problem even occurs. Spokes with a diameter at the elbow of 2.0 mm are usually used for high quality wheels. The ideal spoke hole diameter in the hub flange is 2.3 mm and this is usually ideal for 2.0 mm elbow diameter. In order to prevent the play which causes damage to the spokes, professional wheelbuilders use special brass washers (DT Praline., and we always use them when the difference between the diameter of the spoke and the diameter of the hub's spoke hole is greater than 0.3 mm. Of course, it is not necessary to measure this everytime a spoke is installed. Just insert a spoke into the hub and move it to see if any play can be detected (tactile test… ) If the smallest amount of play can be detected, or when in doubt, use a washer beneath every spoke head. The tension causes the washer to adopt a funnel shape as the washer centers the spoke in the hole . That also increases the thickness of the flange. If spokes equipped in this manner need to be straightened during lacing, the spoke material is not damaged. And the result is a spoke hub joint which is guaranteed free of unnecessary play. The rules are therefore: Always use a washer - when there is any tactile play, - when using 1.8 mm spokes and - when in doubt. Using washers will slightly reduce the length of the spokes, and this can be compensated by selecting spokes that are 1 mm longer. You seldom see a professional, manually-built wheel without washers. They don't just shine like gold, they're worth their weight in gold to the wheelbuilders and riders too! "
(lifted from Gerd Schraner's book) HTH -
- Wil
02-07-13, 06:04 AM
#34
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02-07-13, 07:07 AM
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02-07-13, 07:21 AM
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02-07-13, 08:51 AM
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02-11-13, 04:09 AM
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Now, the big question is how much strength do you actually need in your build?
Some hubs have flanges sturdy enough to deal with this intentionally, some hubs will survive under certain conditions, some hubs will self-destruct, either while JRA(=Just Riding Along), or when the bike is parked.
Now, the big question is how much strength do you actually need in your build?
02-11-13, 09:47 AM
#39
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I use spoke washers on most wheels I build, unless the spoke fit is TIGHT. They look very nice, too.
