Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Lacing a 36 hole hub...!

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Lacing a 36 hole hub...!

Old 02-05-13, 08:07 PM
  #1  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lacing a 36 hole hub...!

I've seen a lacing pattern called "crow''s foot." It looks retro and sharp.
Is it an appropriate pattern for a 36 hole hub?
and...
Is it appropriate to have a 36 hole hub front and a 32 hole hub rear?
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 08:33 PM
  #2  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,343 Times in 850 Posts
being divisible by 4, and 3, 36 is fine to do what is groups of 6 instead of 4.

they're your wheels you don't have to apply to the Polit Bureau , for permission, Comrade.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 08:58 PM
  #3  
shadoman
Senior Member
 
shadoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: the LOU, Mo
Posts: 584

Bikes: Bianchi Nuevo Alloro, Cannondale ST400, Fuji Palisade, GT Timberline FS, Raleigh Technium 420, Schwinn Moab, Schwinn Passage, Schwinn Tempo, Specialized Sirrus Elite (aluminum), Specialized Sirrus Triple (steel), Trek 7.6, Viner Road Record

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 19 Posts
Generally, you want the larger number of spokes in the rear, unless you're a curbslammer.
shadoman is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 09:09 PM
  #4  
Jeff Wills
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
 
Jeff Wills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,631
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times in 268 Posts
Originally Posted by ebgbz View Post
I've seen a lacing pattern called "crow''s foot." It looks retro and sharp.
Is it an appropriate pattern for a 36 hole hub?
and...
Is it appropriate to have a 36 hole hub front and a 32 hole hub rear?
I would not lace a 36-spoke wheel crow's foot style. 1/3 of the spokes will be radial, which is asking for trouble on a 36-hole hub. There's less material in the flange, which means it's weaker, which means the radial spokes are more likely to break the flange.

I built a 36-spoke wheel crows-foot style on an old Shimano high-flange hub, and it worked great. Then I noticed fractures on the flange on the radial spokes. Took it all apart, replaced the hub, and relaced it conventionally.
__________________
Jeff Wills

Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 09:11 PM
  #5  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
being divisible by 4, and 3, 36 is fine to do what is groups of 6 instead of 4.

they're your wheels you don't have to apply to the Polit Bureau , for permission, Comrade.
I'm relieved about that...it is better to seek forgiveness than ask permission
Are there strength characteristics to the "crow's foot" pattern?
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 09:12 PM
  #6  
oldbobcat
Senior Member
 
oldbobcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 3,880

Bikes: '79 Gios, '80 Masi, '06 Felt, early '60s Frejus

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 273 Times in 205 Posts
Originally Posted by ebgbz View Post
Is it appropriate to have a 36 hole hub front and a 32 hole hub rear?
The 32 won't work. 36 holes will give you six sets of three on each side. 32 gives you five sets of three with a remainder of 2. What do you make of that?
oldbobcat is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 09:15 PM
  #7  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shadoman View Post
Generally, you want the larger number of spokes in the rear, unless you're a curbslammer.
I'm a vicarious "curbslammer" but am interested in the visual balance front and rear. The rear hub is a SA 2 spd.and I was mistaken when I said 32 rear in the earlier post. Front and rear will have 36h.
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 09:18 PM
  #8  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
The 32 won't work. 36 holes will give you six sets of three on each side. 32 gives you five sets of three with a remainder of 2. What do you make of that?
What I make of it is that 36h will work numerically and geometrically! The question becomes then is that pattern functional for 36h hubs?
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 09:21 PM
  #9  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
I would not lace a 36-spoke wheel crow's foot style. 1/3 of the spokes will be radial, which is asking for trouble on a 36-hole hub. There's less material in the flange, which means it's weaker, which means the radial spokes are more likely to break the flange.

I built a 36-spoke wheel crows-foot style on an old Shimano high-flange hub, and it worked great. Then I noticed fractures on the flange on the radial spokes. Took it all apart, replaced the hub, and relaced it conventionally.
That makes technical sense...! Thanks for that!!
What is a "conventional pattern?"
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 09:34 PM
  #10  
canyoneagle
Senior Member
 
canyoneagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 4,692

Bikes: Vassago Moosknuckle Ti 29+ XTR, 90's Merckx Corsa-01 9sp Record, PROJECT: 1954 Frejus SuperCorsa

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 149 Times in 70 Posts
Originally Posted by ebgbz View Post
I'm relieved about that...it is better to seek forgiveness than ask permission
Are there strength characteristics to the "crow's foot" pattern?
"crow's foot" is more about style than practicality - especially for the rear. It will not be as strong torsionally as a conventional cross-3 or cross 2 pattern (having 1/3 of the spokes radial), and the twisting of the crossing spokes can introduce stresses that straight spokes do not encounter.
canyoneagle is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 09:48 PM
  #11  
Wil Davis
Curmudgeon
 
Wil Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nausea, New Hamster
Posts: 1,572

Bikes: (see https://wildavis.smugmug.com/Bikes) Bianchi Veloce (2005), Nishiki Cascade (1992), Schwinn Super Sport (1983)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
The 32 won't work. 36 holes will give you six sets of three on each side. 32 gives you five sets of three with a remainder of 2. What do you make of that?
Not true: Here's one of mine:

Here's another:

32 is 8 sets of 4 each set = (1x radial, 1x trailing, 1x radial, 1x leading)

Here's a link to Wil's Wheels

HTH -
- Wil

Last edited by Wil Davis; 02-05-13 at 09:52 PM.
Wil Davis is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 10:47 PM
  #12  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,098

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 147 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3201 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,480 Posts
Originally Posted by ebgbz View Post
That makes technical sense...! Thanks for that!!
What is a "conventional pattern?"
3 cross. FTW.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 10:55 PM
  #13  
Jeff Wills
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
 
Jeff Wills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,631
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times in 268 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
3 cross. FTW.
What he said.
__________________
Jeff Wills

Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills is offline  
Old 02-05-13, 11:40 PM
  #14  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,445

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 17 Posts
I call those hipster wheels. doing it differently just because.
pierce is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 08:46 AM
  #15  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pierce View Post
I call those hipster wheels. doing it differently just because.
Hipster or not they have an interesting retro appeal and...doing things "JUST BECAUSE" seems valid!
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 08:49 AM
  #16  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
3 cross. FTW.
Where would I find and example of what the 3 cross FTW pattern looked like?
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 09:45 AM
  #17  
orfitinho
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ebgbz View Post
Where would I find and example of what the 3 cross pattern looked like?
https://www.rockx.net/cfw/cruisinn/spd10.htm
orfitinho is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 10:02 AM
  #18  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,343 Times in 850 Posts
Where would I find and example of what the 3 cross FTW pattern looked like?
most 36 hole machine built for general cycling wheels
fietsbob is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 10:32 AM
  #19  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by orfitinho View Post
Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Thanks for that! even an old grouch like me can work that!
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 10:54 AM
  #20  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,163

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3682 Post(s)
Liked 2,159 Times in 1,363 Posts
Originally Posted by ebgbz View Post
doing things "JUST BECAUSE" seems valid!
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 01:22 PM
  #21  
pierce
S'Cruzer
 
pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 122W 37N
Posts: 2,445

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by ebgbz View Post
Hipster or not they have an interesting retro appeal and...doing things "JUST BECAUSE" seems valid!
I dunno, to me retro on bicycles means road bikes from 1960s/70s, and cruisers/3-speeds from the 40s/50s, and I sure never saw any crowsfoot/radial/etc stuff back then. 36H 3X or 4X, maybe 40H rear on a tandem or touring bike, that was about as extreme as it got. radial was used on old penny farthings, I don't think they'd figured out crosswise spoking yet.

Or, do you mean 'retro' in a steampunk kind of way, which is a retro that never existed ?
pierce is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 02:27 PM
  #22  
Monster Pete
Senior Member
 
Monster Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Warwick, UK
Posts: 1,049

Bikes: 2000-something 3 speed commuter, 1990-something Raleigh Scorpion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
3 leading/3 trailing looks good and can be laced using the same spokes as regular 3 cross. You just have to be careful when you're lacing it up to get the interlacing right between spokes, and to get the valve in a usable position.
Monster Pete is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 02:42 PM
  #23  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,343 Times in 850 Posts
the r & 1X combo looks crowded at the crossing point, maybe 2X with the r one in between better ..

Just, as said before, watch the radial spoke for pre pull through the flange , stress cracking.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 04:46 PM
  #24  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pierce View Post
I dunno, to me retro on bicycles means road bikes from 1960s/70s, and cruisers/3-speeds from the 40s/50s, and I sure never saw any crowsfoot/radial/etc stuff back then. 36H 3X or 4X, maybe 40H rear on a tandem or touring bike, that was about as extreme as it got. radial was used on old penny farthings, I don't think they'd figured out crosswise spoking yet.

Or, do you mean 'retro' in a steampunk kind of way, which is a retro that never existed ?
...perhaps a bit out of historical context,but, beauty IS after all in the eye of the beer holder!
...sort of a steampunk kind of way but in a more industrial/modern steampunk!
Seriously though I do appreciate the divergent thoughts on wheel lacing. I learning a whole new vocabulary. My first reaction is to form and then function! Being a visual kind of guy, it has look good AND function good!
ebgbz is offline  
Old 02-06-13, 04:50 PM
  #25  
ebgbz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
the r & 1X combo looks crowded at the crossing point, maybe 2X with the r one in between better ..

Just, as said before, watch the radial spoke for pre pull through the flange , stress cracking.
Please tell me what you just said! it sounds like the wrong pattern can cause structural problems! This is new to me and I'm learning the new vernacular as quickly as this old grouch can!
Thanks for the indulgence!
ebgbz is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.