Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

When you try to help and get punished...

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

When you try to help and get punished...

Old 02-11-13, 04:00 PM
  #1  
Reeks of aged cotton duck
Thread Starter
 
Hydrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Middle Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,176

Bikes: 2008 Kogswell PR mkII, 1976 Raleigh Professional, 1996 Serotta Atlanta, 1984 Trek 520, 1979 Raleigh Comp GS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
When you try to help and get punished...

I've been building my own wheels for a while, and I build wheels for others every now and again. I don't do it to make a lot of money, but I earn some cash to spend on my bicycles. My LBS does not build any wheels, so they send folks to me when they come into the shop looking for something that doesn't have Bontrager stickers all over it. Consequently, I build a lot of unusual wheels.

I do a great job on my wheels and I'm proud of that... but I keep getting bitten when I try to do something nice to help folks out. It seems that no matter how much you do for people, they often beat you up for issues that you warned them about up front.

Latest example:
Had this young guy come to me wanting a wheel rebuilt. He'd bought a very used Powertap (the seller estimated that he had about 10,000 miles on the hub) wheel set with tubular rims, and he wanted me to take the used alloy clincher rim from another wheel and build it around the Powertap hub. I told him that using a used rim wasn't the best idea, and that I'd spend the extra money to buy a new rim. I've found that used rims almost always have tweaks or damage that prevent me from turning out the high quality build that I want to deliver to someone who is paying me to do a build.

So this kid talks me into doing the build for him. I warned him that using used parts is a risk... and he swore that he understood and he was willing to live with it in order to save some money.

Sure enough... during the build I found that the rim had a hop in it. It wasn't the normal "at the seam" imperfection that you see from manufacturing. This hop was located about 20 degrees from the valve stem and looked to be caused by a bent rim. It looked minor... I measured it at about 1mm... maybe 1.5mm at most. I could adjust it out, but this resulted in spoke tensions being all over the board with some tensions low enough to risk the integrity and durability of the wheel.

Heck... the kid said he was trying to save money... so I finished the wheel and delivered it.

He called me two days later and raved about how happy he was with the wheel. He even boasted about how the wheel had already survived two 1500W sprint efforts. So I thought that all was well.

Then this weekend he starts texting me about how the wheel has a vertical hop in it so bad that it was causing frame rub. What?? That's a nasty hop. As I questioned him, he said that the hop was the same as when I'd delivered the wheel. I told him that I knew EXACTLY where the hop was and how big it was, and that I simply did not believe that a 1mm hop was rubbing his frame with 23mm tires. He immediately backed off and admitted that it was something that he could live with.

To make a long story short... he'd simply decided that the wheel wasn't perfect enough for him. He was told that he'd have to put up with some things so as to save money... but he still expected to be riding a new wheel. So now I have this kid complaining about getting what he was told he'd get.

And this isn't the first time that I've run into this. People want you to take their used crappy components and turn them into brand new DuraAce shiny bits. And they're unhappy when they get their used components back.

So from now on, I will refuse to build with used rims. I'm tired of getting beat up for trying to help people save money on a build.

Have you guys run into this kind of crap? What did you do about it?
Hydrated is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 04:06 PM
  #2  
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,938

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2957 Post(s)
Liked 3,024 Times in 1,540 Posts
Did he allow you to tune up the wheel after these mad sprints?

Frankly I would not build wheels for others unless I had an on going business and real good insurance. Build an occasional wheel for a friend os one thing but charging to build wheels could leave you open to legal issues.
__________________
One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"

Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 04:08 PM
  #3  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,840

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3617 Post(s)
Liked 3,449 Times in 1,958 Posts
Institute a firm policy: no used parts for customers' builds. If someone really thinks they want to save some money that way, they should take it as an opportunity to learn how to build their own darned wheels.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 04:13 PM
  #4  
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 7,522

Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes:Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 486 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Either you have ethics and standards and hold to them or you lay yourself open to others who have none. You do not have an obligation to accept work if it may put you in a such a position. He was being a customer - they are always right, remember?

You also need to realize that something worse could happen if you accept a project about which you have doubts. Even if the customer tells you to go ahead, the burden is on you not to act in opposition to your own good judgement. If you do so and the customer claims a loss related to your work you are toast - especially if you do not have liabillity coverage.

Last edited by cny-bikeman; 02-11-13 at 04:20 PM.
cny-bikeman is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 04:18 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,871
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Liked 685 Times in 400 Posts
Now multiply that x 100 add a few try to get over scams a season and welcome to my world. All you can do is be very specific and firm. If they get stupid they get the GFY and have a nice day. If it were up to me I'd ban roadies...
wheelreason is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 04:20 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
EhGiOeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 456

Bikes: C 93 Colnago Early 70's Colnago Sport Mid 80's I think East German National Team Bike "77" Gios Super Record Early "90's" Contini GOIDESIGN Early 90's Contini Reynolds 501 oval tube tourer 70's J van Staeyen Flemish Club bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
No good deed goes unpunished. Ed
EhGiOeS is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 04:47 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here's my take:

We human beings just don't always listen/read like we should.

Case in point: I worked as an auto mechanic and smog tech for a small gas/service station during the mid and early 90s. This shop was occasionally asked to perform a "pre-sale check-up inspections" on various used cars by the prospective buyers. As you can guess, these cars checked out to "good, bad, or somewhere in-between." The owner/manager always wrote in big print across the top of the work order what the outcome was on each car we inspected (we often when as far as running a "pre-smog" test on these vehicles).

Well, this shop finally decided to halt any and all "pre-sale inspections" due to the number complaints it received from customers that went ahead an bought the very cars we recommended against buying. Believe it or not, some of these customers "swore up and down" that the "lemon" car they bought was recommended as a "good buy" by the shop when, in fact, we advised that they not buy the vehicle (the owner, on several occasions, had to retrieve the original work order to prove that we recommended against buying the specific vehicle).

One "unhappy" customer actually claimed that "he should not have been charged a fee if the car was indeed a bad buy"...

Anyway, I recommend that you always have your customers "sign off on" any questionable or "iffy" issues whenever possible (or, better yet, avoid such issues entirely by turning away such work).
FMB42 is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 04:47 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,320

Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1439 Post(s)
Liked 1,094 Times in 724 Posts
If you have misgivings about work that a customer wants you to perform, and you do not for whatever reason want to refuse the work, put your concerns and their possible consequences (such as sudden wheel failure and loss of control) in writing and have the customer sign and date it. Then if a liability claim or pissing contest ensues you will have at least some backup. Seeing it in writing and being asked to sign it can often do wonders to clarify fuzzy thinking; maybe the money-saving idea will suddenly appear not to be such a good one if they feel that the liability will be theirs instead of yours.

Of course if you are going to hold out your services to the public you should consider carrying liability insurance and/or forming an LLC to protect your personal assets.
dsbrantjr is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 04:53 PM
  #9  
Hogosha Sekai
 
RaleighSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STS
Posts: 6,669

Bikes: Leader 725, Centurion Turbo, Scwhinn Peloton, Schwinn Premis, GT Tequesta, Bridgestone CB-2,72' Centurion Lemans, 72 Raleigh Competition

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Hydrated
I've been building my own wheels for a while, and I build wheels for others every now and again. I don't do it to make a lot of money, but I earn some cash to spend on my bicycles. My LBS does not build any wheels, so they send folks to me when they come into the shop looking for something that doesn't have Bontrager stickers all over it. Consequently, I build a lot of unusual wheels.

I do a great job on my wheels and I'm proud of that... but I keep getting bitten when I try to do something nice to help folks out. It seems that no matter how much you do for people, they often beat you up for issues that you warned them about up front.

Latest example:
Had this young guy come to me wanting a wheel rebuilt. He'd bought a very used Powertap (the seller estimated that he had about 10,000 miles on the hub) wheel set with tubular rims, and he wanted me to take the used alloy clincher rim from another wheel and build it around the Powertap hub. I told him that using a used rim wasn't the best idea, and that I'd spend the extra money to buy a new rim. I've found that used rims almost always have tweaks or damage that prevent me from turning out the high quality build that I want to deliver to someone who is paying me to do a build.

So this kid talks me into doing the build for him. I warned him that using used parts is a risk... and he swore that he understood and he was willing to live with it in order to save some money.

Sure enough... during the build I found that the rim had a hop in it. It wasn't the normal "at the seam" imperfection that you see from manufacturing. This hop was located about 20 degrees from the valve stem and looked to be caused by a bent rim. It looked minor... I measured it at about 1mm... maybe 1.5mm at most. I could adjust it out, but this resulted in spoke tensions being all over the board with some tensions low enough to risk the integrity and durability of the wheel.

Heck... the kid said he was trying to save money... so I finished the wheel and delivered it.

He called me two days later and raved about how happy he was with the wheel. He even boasted about how the wheel had already survived two 1500W sprint efforts. So I thought that all was well.

Then this weekend he starts texting me about how the wheel has a vertical hop in it so bad that it was causing frame rub. What?? That's a nasty hop. As I questioned him, he said that the hop was the same as when I'd delivered the wheel. I told him that I knew EXACTLY where the hop was and how big it was, and that I simply did not believe that a 1mm hop was rubbing his frame with 23mm tires. He immediately backed off and admitted that it was something that he could live with.

To make a long story short... he'd simply decided that the wheel wasn't perfect enough for him. He was told that he'd have to put up with some things so as to save money... but he still expected to be riding a new wheel. So now I have this kid complaining about getting what he was told he'd get.

And this isn't the first time that I've run into this. People want you to take their used crappy components and turn them into brand new DuraAce shiny bits. And they're unhappy when they get their used components back.

So from now on, I will refuse to build with used rims. I'm tired of getting beat up for trying to help people save money on a build.

Have you guys run into this kind of crap? What did you do about it?
Now if you lived in Norcal I'd just tell you to build/rebuild my wheels for me, and I wouldn't complain
RaleighSport is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 05:51 PM
  #10  
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,928

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds. 2019 Giant Explore E+3

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1815 Post(s)
Liked 1,302 Times in 896 Posts
Working on used rims for my own personal use would be enough warning not to use them for a job that I would actually charge money for. Just too many potential pitfalls.

Some new rims can be disappointing. Peter White doesn't like Sun Rims for example-

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.asp


"......But inexpensive rims from Sun have to be treated differently. Sun rims are remarkably strong, quite resistant to warping or denting. But Sun's quality control, frankly, leaves a bit to be desired. They often have crooked joints and slight warps right out of the box. But very often they will build up as perfectly as a Velocity or Mavic rim. And there's really no way of knowing before hand."
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 05:53 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 936
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
If I were the OP, I would be most concerned about someone being injured. Given how litigious everyone seems to be these days, your small extra cash on the side is peanuts to the potential consequences (whether it's your fault or not). It only takes one bad apple to bring down a good, small business. And the number of bad apples in today's society seems to be exponentially rising.
lineinthewater is offline  
Old 02-11-13, 06:05 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
bargainguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Trekland
Posts: 2,252
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 525 Post(s)
Liked 330 Times in 200 Posts
It's odd to say, but building a wheel from used parts often indicates the sign of a wheelbuilder who doesn't know better, because stuff like this happens all the time. Even worse is ordering a new wheel from a master wheelbuilder and not listening to their recommendation of "it's not going to work too well for you because of _____." Certain combinations of hubs/spokes/rims just don't play well together. Wheelbuilding is a combination of art and science with a little instinct thrown in. Not for the timid.
bargainguy is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 02:51 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 222 Posts
Originally Posted by dsbrantjr
If you have misgivings about work that a customer wants you to perform, and you do not for whatever reason want to refuse the work, put your concerns and their possible consequences (such as sudden wheel failure and loss of control) in writing and have the customer sign and date it.
+1

I've done some hairy fixes over the years, when basically someone has walked in with an idea, but lacking the tools and the skills.
And sometimes, I've been the one who'd approached someone with another skillset/toolbox than mine, and asked them to do something similar for me.
A few choice words on paper has locked down the transaction to the work performed , and not the final result, and we'd been good from there.
It's a balancing act, sure, and for something relatively inexpensive as wheel parts there shouldn't be much to talk about.
But having been on the buying end on a couple of occasions - and happy with that - I find it difficult to push for the "hard" line of never accepting the unorthodox tasks. There'd been a few of my pet projects I'd never been able to complete unless I'd found someone willing to do something inadvisable or strange for me.
dabac is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 05:42 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: England, currently dividing my time between university in Guildford and home just outside Reading
Posts: 1,921

Bikes: Too many to list here!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by bargainguy
Certain combinations of hubs/spokes/rims just don't play well together. Wheelbuilding is a combination of art and science with a little instinct thrown in. Not for the timid.
I disagree - almost anyone can learn to build wheels, as Jobst Brandt confirmed when he tested his book, The Bicycle Wheel, by having his two teenage sons build a wheelset each using only the book for information. I don't consider it an art, I consider it a science, and I've definitely never seen any wheels that failed because "the hubs/spokes/rims didn't play well together".
Airburst is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 07:13 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Airburst
I disagree - almost anyone can learn to build wheels, as Jobst Brandt confirmed when he tested his book, The Bicycle Wheel, by having his two teenage sons build a wheelset each using only the book for information. I don't consider it an art, I consider it a science, and I've definitely never seen any wheels that failed because "the hubs/spokes/rims didn't play well together".

Again, far too many people don't bother to read, let alone listen.

Besides, JB's wheel building "example" (imo) does not, in any way shape or form, reflect the majority of weekend bicycle "mechanics". Building a wheel "from scratch" (i.e. by separately ordering/purchasing the proper hub, spokes, and rim) can be a difficult and time-consuming proposition for many weekend mechanics (regardless of whether or not they consult a book or article on the subject).

Some weekend bicycle mechanics find it difficult to repair and/or re-assemble pre-built wheels (even when they have existing spokes, rims, and hubs to measure and/or use as an example). There are many BF threads that indicate the reality of these statements.

Sure, "almost anyone can learn how to build a wheel". The question is whether, or not, they have the patience, time, desire, and information to do so.

Meanwhile, I further add the following opinion:

Cheapskates pay the most, complain the most, or both.

Last edited by FMB42; 02-12-13 at 08:45 AM.
FMB42 is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 07:54 AM
  #16  
Lover of Old Chrome Moly
 
Myosmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 17 Posts
All business transactions should be in writing. A quick general agreement would take 10-15 minutes to compose and print. Then all you need is to write in the details of the transaction, the agreed price for services, and agreed limitations of liability (no warranty of any kind is extended to wheels built with used parts, etc.). A signature and a date and you're good to go.

To me a money-saving custom build is an oxymoron. You don't build custom wheels to save money, you do it because you want something better or different than the mass produced wheels on the market. I put together my first wheelset out of used rims and hubs with new spokes, but as a learning experience knowing that my components were still in acceptable condition and that I was basicly rebuilding a used wheelset. I hold them to an entirely different standard than the custom wheels from all new components built for me by my LBS.
Myosmith is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 08:51 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
kmv2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 705

Bikes: Bianchi circa late 1980s, Surly Cross Check, Kona Blast

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Live and you learn I guess. Perhaps put something in writing, and explain it to the customer more clearly.
Everybody wants to "save money", some people are just needlessly cheap.

I recently had a similar situation when I decided to get a brake job on my car done by a mechanic (always done it myself). They gave me a huge speech/disclaimer on why they don't like to use customer-bought parts (new or used), but they did the work with my assurances; I wasn't being cheap by buying my own, I just had bought the parts myself and did not have the time to do it and it needed to get done. We verified the part numbers and both agreed that if I came for future work I'd let them buy the parts.

I completely understand though. Not only do they not get their "cut", they don't know where the parts came from and have no warranty or guarantee that they are the right parts. I can see some cheapo walking in with used God knows what and asking them to repair their car with it; hence releasing themselves completely from liability knowing full well they have the auto shop to blame and get potential damages from.

IMO, it sounds like this kid was trying to rip you off. If he has money to buy a power tap and is doing 1500W (!) sprints he's probably not poor.

You have the knowledge to sway them out of a potentially bad situation for the both of you. Think of a worst case scenario, if someone brought in a department store bike they found in a dumpster; seized everything, rotted brakes, no tires, no saddle, warped rims .. the works.. would you honestly charge them the cost of your labour and parts to repair it knowing full well it will (a) cost more than the original price of the bike and (b) potentially fail due to its original state?

Last edited by kmv2; 02-12-13 at 08:56 AM.
kmv2 is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 09:59 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
gregjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: West Georgia
Posts: 2,828

Bikes: K2 Mod 5.0 Roadie, Fuji Commuter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Hydrated
So from now on, I will refuse to build with used rims. I'm tired of getting beat up for trying to help people save money on a build.
That is the policy I had to use when I had an automotive repair shop. I only worked on BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche/Audi vehicles. I had nothing but problems with used parts and customers that wanted to use them. I finally decided that if they couldn't afford the parts....they couldn't afford the expensive car.

Be sure to inform the bike shop of your decision to even stop them from sending the "used part" customer to you.

One thing you might have tried, in this case if you had time, would be to offer to help the young man repair the wheel himself. I might have made positive afternoon for you passing on your knowledge and that fellow could learn something he could use the rest of his cycling life. If he didn't accept that he'd just have to buy new.
gregjones is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 10:19 AM
  #19  
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 27,267

Bikes: See my sig...

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 130 Times in 97 Posts
If a customer wants me to build them a wheel with used parts I will do it if the used parts meet specs BUT... they come with no guarantee.

I warrant the build and offer lifetime adjustments on wheels built with new parts that have met with my approval... this means the customer gets a wheel that will most likely never need anything until they wear out the rims or run over the wheel with their car.

I agree that almost anyone can learn to build wheels and have some tutorials that make this really easy for novices, and I teach wheel building to amateurs and professionals.

Building a single set of wheels does not make you a wheel builder.
Sixty Fiver is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 10:24 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: England, currently dividing my time between university in Guildford and home just outside Reading
Posts: 1,921

Bikes: Too many to list here!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by FMB42
Again, far too many people don't bother to read, let alone listen.

Besides, JB's wheel building "example" (imo) does not, in any way shape or form, reflect the majority of weekend bicycle "mechanics". Building a wheel "from scratch" (i.e. by separately ordering/purchasing the proper hub, spokes, and rim) can be a difficult and time-consuming proposition for many weekend mechanics (regardless of whether or not they consult a book or article on the subject).

Some weekend bicycle mechanics find it difficult to repair and/or re-assemble pre-built wheels (even when they have existing spokes, rims, and hubs to measure and/or use as an example). There are many BF threads that indicate the reality of these statements.

Sure, "almost anyone can learn how to build a wheel". The question is whether, or not, they have the patience, time, desire, and information to do so.

Meanwhile, I further add the following opinion:

Cheapskates pay the most, complain the most, or both.
My response wasn't saying that everyone should learn to build wheels, it was saying that in my opinion, wheelbuilding isn't something that's "not for the timid", but rather something that can be learned fairly easily by someone who wants to.

I agree that many "weekend mechanics" have trouble working on wheels, and that a lot of people wouldn't bother learning to do it, but that's not because it's some kind of dark art that takes years to learn.
Airburst is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 10:28 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,592

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5234 Post(s)
Liked 3,609 Times in 2,357 Posts
OP ~ as a customer, I would respect this position from a professional
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 10:45 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times in 365 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Institute a firm policy: no used parts for customers' builds. If someone really thinks they want to save some money that way, they should take it as an opportunity to learn how to build their own darned wheels.
Bottom line:

The customer came to you to rebuild the wheels because he felt that you had knowledge, experience and ability that he lacked. Then, before you even got started, he discounted that experience to save money.

Don't ask me how I know this but it was a freeing moment for me when I learned that I could turn down work. Just because somebody wants you to do something that you don't think is in either your or their best interest doesn't mean you have to agree to do it.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 10:53 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 25 Posts
Hydrated, screwing around with used parts on a wheel build is a lose/lose for you. The customer is only thinking of how cheap he can get the work done going in. Then they are upset because money has been spent and it's still used stuff that may be mediocre. They finally realize their mistake after getting the product back. Then there is the increased chance of part failure and injury.

One of the keys to staying in business is recognizing the customer you don't want to work for. Unreasonable cheapness, high expectations and indecisiveness are big tip offs. bk
bkaapcke is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 11:20 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Indian Wells, CA (near Palm Springs)
Posts: 321

Bikes: Giant Defy Comp 2, Specialized Rockhopper Hard Tail 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Airburst
My response wasn't saying that everyone should learn to build wheels, it was saying that in my opinion, wheelbuilding isn't something that's "not for the timid", but rather something that can be learned fairly easily by someone who wants to.

I agree that many "weekend mechanics" have trouble working on wheels, and that a lot of people wouldn't bother learning to do it, but that's not because it's some kind of dark art that takes years to learn.
I sure hope you're right. I'm ordering the truing stand and accessories today, and there are a handful of bikes out in my garage to practice on.
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 02-12-13, 11:37 AM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gaseous Cloud around Uranus
Posts: 3,741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 7 Posts
What's new......If somebody didn't want a 800 HP from their pick a part engine,I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven.......What do you mean I have to start with good parts?

If you send me old dirty rusty crap and I tell you so and you OK it.....you get shiny clean crap back.

Some people don't listen to me,I've only been doing it for 40 years.The customer is correct,he read it in a magazine......or it was on the net.

If you want to cover your hiney,list it on an invoice and make them sign it.That way everybody knows what's going on,including the judge.

Last edited by Booger1; 02-12-13 at 11:54 AM.
Booger1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.