noyb72

So, over the last year I have put just under 4k miles on my Diamondback Edgewood commuter. I recently replaced the wheels going down to 700cx28mm with a free hub that I put a 12-x cassette on. The rear rim was bent so bad it rubbed the frame and the spokes were toast. Next on my list is to replace the shifters due to the fact that the rear won't return when I shift into a larger ring, and replace the crank set because when I started riding I ran the bike like a fixie and wore the big ring out. I understand that the economics say buy a new bike, but the frame fits me well and I've got the rack I want, the handlebars narrowed to where they fit me and basically the bike is just the way I want it except for the running gear. It is also time for new brake pads and a chain.

My request is advice on what components to go with? I would like to upgrade to an 8 or 9 speed and end up with a 50-11 big gear. I know that's big for a commuter, but my RPM is low and I am certain I can turn more gear. I would like the bike to shift better than new, especially under load like in the middle of a climb. I'm not to worried about money, but I'm not interested in super high performance on this thing. I just want the bike to be a little nicer than it was new and fulfill the same purpose, namely efficient transportation for me and sometimes my 3 year old.

Thanks,
Ron

Burton

Suggest you stick with a 48T max big chainring. Anything larger than that is road bike territory and road bike brifters or even flatbar shifters are more complicated (and more expensive) than hybrid shifters (which are essentually mtb equipment).
I'm not sure what you mean by a 12-x cassette - could you explain please?

Retro Grouch 

[QUOTE=noyb72;15279929 I understand that the economics say buy a new bike, but the frame fits me well and I've got the rack I want, the handlebars narrowed to where they fit me and basically the bike is just the way I want it except for the running gear.[/QUOTE]

Oh oh. It sounds to me like you're getting BTD (Bike Tinkerers Disease). You might as well just go with it because there's no known cure. A new bike just makes it worse because then you'll have 2 bikes to tinker with.

First off, 8 or 9-speed requires a different freehub body. I wouldn't bother. You can get the same gear range using 7-speed and, since you're not a frequent shifter, the smaller steps between gears won't benefit you very much.

If you think that your big chainring is worn out, I'd replace the crankset, chain and cassette all at once because those parts wear together. A new chain on worn cogs doesn't work and a worn chain on new cogs just makes the cogs wear much more quickly.

Like the other poster mentioned, shifters are usually the most expensive component. If it was my bike, before replacing them I'd treat it to a new set of cables and housings and maybe give the shifters a WD-40 flush. My bet is that'll cure the reticent shifting.

Finally, if you want to make your bike "feel" a little nicer than new, get some new hand grips. Lots of folks swear by Ergon grips but my favorites are shellacked cork from Riverdell or "Dapper Dan" leather grips. Either one will make your bike look more high end. Not cheap but think of what you just saved by not changing out the shifters.

hybridbkrdr

Shimano Sora FC-3503 crankset with chainguard 3x9 65 Euro
https://www.bike24.com/p238699.html
Shimano Sora SL-3503 flatbar shifters 62 Euro
https://www.bike24.com/p239074.html
Shimano Sora FD-3503 front derailleur 3x9 19 Euro
https://www.bike24.com/p238818.html
Shimano Sora RD-3500 rear derailleur 3x9 22 Euro
https://www.bike24.com/p238883.html

or maybe these flatbar shifters Shimano R440
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=30139

I could write more but I'm a little tired. I posted some Tiagra links in a previous post.

EDIT: I'll add the post without editing...

Bianchigirll 

What is the difference between flatbar shifters and MTB shifters?

Airburst

It's a Shimano thing, the right-handed ones are no different, but their left-handed flat bar road shifters are designed to operate their road front derailleurs.

dsbrantjr

50 X 11 is an awfully high gear for a commuter, and 11-tooth cogs wear out pretty quickly. You will also be sacrificing more useful ratios with such a high small cog. You will do your heart and knees a favor if you go with a lower gearing and learn to spin faster.

hybridbkrdr

Shimano Deore hubs wheelset
https://www.blueskycycling.com/produc...ty-FR-Rims.htm

This with the assumption you have 135mm dropouts. If it's 130mm, then you'd be looking at Tiagra or 105 hubs.

Burton

Flatbar shifters specifically designed for use with a road type front derailleur - (necessary for any crankset with a 50T + front chainring), incorporate a trim function in the LH shifter to eliminate chain rub on the front derailleur caused by the larger diameter chainring in some combinations. The pull ratio is also different for the LH shifter and as a result - the price is also different. Different as in much higher as Shimano is probably still recouping R&D costs on a new product line with limited sales.

Bill Kapaun

Your shifting issue might just be a matter of cleaning the cable or possibly a broken strand binding up.

When you bought your rear wheel, did you install the cassette your self? Many wheels are rather generic and actually have an 8/9 speed free hub body and use a 4.5mm spacer to take up the extra space when used with a 7 speed cassette.

IF you want to upgrade >7, I suggest you go straight to 9 speed. There's simply many more cog combinations available than 8 speed.
IF you prudently watch your online prices, they change frequently from day to day and you can find some good deals on 9 speed shifters. You only need the right shifter if you want to economize.
9 speed cassettes aren't much more expensive than 8, if you watch for them.
Chains will be more expensive, but what's an extra $10-15 when you consider the whole package?

I say nibs on the 11T small cog. If you are spinning out with a 48-12 combination, you're either going downhill or need to increase your cadence. Even if you spin out on some occasions, just enjoy it. It's not going to be a large % of the time.

noyb72

Thank you all so much!!

I don't have time to respond to every comment, but I will awnser what I can.

The wheelset is a Weinman TR16, it is an 8-9 speed hub that I put a spacer on to work with a 7 speed cassette.

I have Specialized grips with bar ends, that's part of the "bike is just how I want it." Right now the factory bars are as narrow as they can be to have the grips and shifter/brake pods before they dip. I am currently spending lots of money trying to find the perfect bar bag.

The factory shifters never really were worth the plastic they were cast out of. In fact I think my not shifting habit emerged from the fact that the bike didn't like to shift. So, I think if I upgrade the shifters I might shift more.

12-x means I have a 7 speed cassette with a 12 spoke small sprocket and some size big sprocket (x) that I don't care about because if I shift into a gear taller than half way through the stack (or anytime I come out of the big front cog) I basically come to a standstill because my legs don't spin that fast and the crappy shifters won't shift back down to the smaller sprockets. I'm hoping better shifters and gears will fix the latter part.

I know I should learn how to spin faster. I am stopped on the road at least once a week by people that ride way faster than me giving me free advice of shifting into an easier cog and spinning. I just haven't figured it out, on exercise bikes I can maintain 70-75 RPM for as long as 2 hours averaging 16-17 miles per hour. Take all the resistance away and I can spin at 95 RPM for about 30 seconds. I've had trainers literally yell at me "spin faster! spin faster!" but my legs just won't do it. I currently average 15 MPH on my 27.5 mile per direction commute, if I could get that closer to 20 I'd be happy, but if I could get to where I could enjoy my bike more because it shifted and didn't make crummy noises...I'd be happier still.

Again, I appreciate your time.
Ron

Burton

Personally I'd suggest you replace the shifters with some Shimano Rapidfire seven speed shifters and keep things simple. If you 'upgrade' to nine speeds, you're looking at a new crankset, front derailleur and chain - not just new 9-speed shifters and cassette. And maintenaince costs go up cause cassettes and chains don't last any longer - they just cost more to replace. You can also optionally look at a different front crankset. Different chainsizes won't in itself necessate replacing anything else but might give you gear ratios more practical for your commute.

Just to be very clear - I'm not against 9 or 10- speed drivetrains - in fact I have them on several bikes and also have a brand new set of Deore Rapidfire shifters, front and rear derailleurs and chain, and a Shimano Alivio M431 26/36/48 crankset available if you're interested. I just think you should probably stick with a 21-speed set-up. I drive with exactly that on the winter bike and its perfect.

noyb72

I have no problem with staying 3x7, I'm just not finding much in the way of nicer than I have now. I have come across this https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=...=0;pgc=142:525 after searching using key words from you all and wondered what you all thought. If this is a go I might just do it, I would ask for some help on the options? I don't know what a shadow derailleur is or what swing FD I need. The gear ratios look like what I have in mind though, I'm thinking 11-28x48-36-26 will give me what I need. Seems like I could crawl up a waterfall with 28x26 , but I'm not huge into climbing. The century I plan on doing this year has two level 5 climbs. I've done them and they aren't horrible but they are the most climbing I've done.

Again, I appreciate all your help.

Ron

hybridbkrdr

lol, I could have suggested the groupset but didn't want to annoy people with too many of my links. Hehe.

Anyway, for the front derailleur, some people have said they have a slight preference for the top swing. And shadow derailleur from what I saw is simply closer to your wheel in case you hit tree branches etc. It wouldn't matter to me either way. I'd go with top swing even though I'm satisfied with bottom swing then choose the top-normal rear derailleur. (My ultimate choice was apparently unpopular and almost abandoned by Shimano, the low-normal rear derailleur.) (EDIT: After reading someone's post here, I realized what I suspected was probably correct, the Shadow rear derailleur is low-normal after all. It goes in the opposite direction which is what I'd prefer like after going up or down a hill.)

Anyway, I applaud your choice if you get one of those groupsets. Outside Europe you won't pay VAT even though you pay for shipping. If I had a lot of money, I'd have fun building various kinds of bicycles and would choose those trekking groupsets (with the 48/36/26 tooth cranksets with chainguards). I have a preference for silver though. One thing about those cranksets is it's the new type that are apparently easier to remove and service (although the bottom brackets may need to be replaced more often).

EDIT: I just noticed the silver version of that groupset allows you to choose either combined shifter/brake lever or seperate brake levers and shifters. I would take them seperate because you can install them at different angles on your bars. And, if one stops working correctly, they can be replaced seperately.

Retro Grouch 

"Shadow derailleur" means "low normal". Essentially, the shifter works backward relative to what you're probably used to. Cable tension pulls the derailleur down to the smaller rear cogs and spring tension moves it up to the larger ones. My son who likes to mountain bike likes shadow derailleurs but I've just never gotten the hang of them.

"Swing" of front derailleurs refers to where the mounting clamp is located relative to the mechanism. If the clamp is near the bottom bracket, you have a top swing. If the clamp is higher on the seat tube, you have a bottom swing. My advice is to stick with whichever you have because, when you try to change, things like water bottle cage screws and flared seat tube bottoms tend to get in the way.

gilaasepeda

if you looking 50-39-30T and 11-32T shimano new sora 3500 series is your best bet, is 9 speed though.

noyb72

I can see how the separate brake / shifter levers would be nice but I'm not sure I have enough room on my bars and I DO NOT want wider bars. In fact, every now and then I consider getting a flat bar in order to fit everything on the bars and go narrower than I am now. I will replace the bikes worn out suspension fork with a rigid touring fork someday and I'll probably go threadless when I do (my current neck needs to be tightened after every ride anyway), and I'll probably get the flat bar then.

Thnanks
Ron


I'll start scrounging pennies and order the groupset in a couple of weeks.

Thanks
Ron

Bill Kapaun

You don't need to go to a 9 speed FDER & crank, although purists might be offended.
I've upgraded both my bikes to 9 speed and the existing cranks/FDER's worked fine.
For a short time, I was using an old cottered crank from a 2X5!

You did say that you needed a new crank, so I'd just get whatever MB crank in 8-9 speed that suited your fancy.
Pick out one of the online gear calculators and determine which cassette to use.

Just because you can do whatever on a trainer is pretty meaningless in the real world.
There's this thing called wind resistance that sucks up much of your energy at higher speeds.

noyb72

I am well aware of what wind resistance does, but I do think that trainers remove external elements in order to identify issues with your technique such as my issue with RPM.

I am going to get the group set and be done with it. I may just bite the bullet and get a new fork at th same time. Funny, by the time I'm done the only thing on the bike that will be Diamondback will be the frame and saddle, but it will be exactly what I want.

Thanks
Ron

Burton

Source: Canadian Cyclist June 27/07/2008 Shimano MTB Preview

'high normal' or 'low normal' have been available in different derailleur models including Shadow type derailleurs.

Dan Burkhart 

Rapid Rise is Shimano's name for a low normal derailleur. I think the Shadow is available in both low and high normal.
The Shadow is a pretty comprehensive re-design that results in a unit that does not protrude nearly as far from the bike to keep it from smashing on stuff. Useful to the off road crowd.

noyb72

Resurrecting an old thread, life in the way and all that.

So I went with Deore 591 gearset and mechs (new to me word that means I don't have to try to spell French), I stayed 3x7 with new separate shifters and brake levers. I bought a chro-mo threadless fork and a new headset. I have just about 600 miles on this set up and am very happy. However, I have come to the conclusion that I cannot overcome a frame that is to small. So this bike will become a family cruiser and I am looking at a road bike for commuting. I'm looking at about $1500.00. I love the flat bar but I do feel that a true road bike will be better for exercise, commuting and the occasional organized ride.

Thanks to everyone that helped, my Diamondback is just about as perfect as it can be for me and will still see years of use carrying kids/grand kids around and combing the beaches for fishing spots and waves.

Ron