Syncmaster

I recently replaced my worn Shimano Ultegra chain with a Wippermann Connex 10sx chain based on a recommendation from a friend. I have had some problems adjusting my rear derailleur to shift properly and I brought it to the LBS for a second opinion.

The chain will struggle to shift in the rear up from the smallest cog to the second smallest, and when I release tension on the derailleur to shift down to smaller cogs from bigger ones, there is often lag in the shifts, or after one click of the shifter, it might not shift at all and then it'll jump 2 cogs when I try to shift again.

I wasn't able to remedy these symptoms, and the mechanic at the shop when asked to figure it out came to the conclusion that I should be using a Shimano Ultegra chain to match the rest of my Ultegra components.

Is this a valid solution or should I have no problems with the Wippermann chain and the problem lies elsewhere, say in my rear derailleur? Or maybe my rear cassette has worn from the old chain?

Thanks for any advice!

fietsbob

Maybe its just worn, rather than a brand problem & the shifting synch, is also out of best adjustment.

Shop out here carries KMC for replacements.. seems adequate..

I have Wippermann chain, on my 2 IGH bikes, Harris had NOS full bushing 3/32" ( wish I could get more) .

jimc101

What condition is the cassette in, would suspect that this is the issue rather than the new chain.

Syncmaster

Some pics of the cassette if this helps:

Syncmaster

Sorry to bump this but I'm now wondering if it's my cassette. Should have posted the pics first. Thanks for any help.

shelbyfv

Sounds like it could be a cable issue. Disconnect the cable from the RD and check that it is not fraying at the shifter. Then start fresh with your adjustment per the Park Tool site.

Syncmaster

They're brand new cables.

FastJake

Do you still have the old chain? If so you should measure it for wear. If it's really worn out the cassette needs to be replaced too.

I agree, this sounds like a cable issue to me. I know you said the cables were brand new, but if they weren't cut and installed well you can definitely see this issue. Cable installation is very important and doing it wrong makes a mess of things.

What I can tell you for sure is that this is completely wrong. You don't need an Ultegra chain because you're running an Ultegra cassette, or components. You could run your components with a SRAM cassette and a KMC chain and it would shift just fine (as long as the # of speeds are the same.)

Syncmaster

Thanks for the input.

I actually DO have a chain wear tool and it was indicating at least at .5% wear on the old chain. This was why I replaced it. So do you think replacing the cassette will remedy the problem? Or is it worth bringing the bike to a better mechanic to have him inspect the cables?

Burton

I'd also suggest double checking the cable installation as well as the alignment of the rear hanger. Usually when a cassette is worn the chain will shift fine in the rack but jump under load.

FastJake

+1 Good tip about checking the RD hanger alignment. Poor alignment can cause these strange issues.

Cassette should still be fine at 0.5%

I would definitely find a new mechanic either way since the current one told you the chain was the problem... He is either incompetent, trying to sell your more parts, or both.

If you want to do the cables yourself, so you KNOW they're done right, read this: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html It really isn't that hard but takes a little patience to make sure it's done right. Rush through it and you will likely do a poor job.

Since you have brifters I'm guessing the cables run under the bar tape. Unfortunately the only way to inspect that piece of housing is to remove the bar tape. However, the rear housing loop is probably the more common one to be done wrong. Usually they are cut too short. That is a lot easier to identify.

onespeedbiker

You wrote, Was your bike having trouble shifting with the old chain prior to the new Wippermann chain? Also when did you install the new cables? Did the new cables correspond with the shifting problems?

Syncmaster

I started seeing the problem emerge with my old chain. But it wasn't as bad as it is now. Shifting to the smallest cog in the rear would often lag badly or just not happen. After realizing my chain was worn, I replaced the chain and the shifter cables at the same time and the problem then grew to affect shifting into more than just the smallest cog. It happens in a few places.

When you guys say that the installation of new cables could be the problem, are you saying that it's the installation of new HOUSINGS? Or the actual cables themselves.

I ask because I didn't replace the old Housings that were already setup on my bike. I only replaced the cables within those housings. So I don't really see how I could have screwed that up so badly to make the problem I was experiencing before intensify.

Thanks everyone for your help so far.

400trix

I usually blame housing: that's the source of friction.

You can try crossing your cables: running the rear cable to the left down tube cable stop, and the front to the right, and then crossing the cables under the down tube. This gives cleaner curves and can improve shifting. I've seen this sort of routing clear up poor shifting.

But really, it sounds a bit like a bent hanger or dérailleur. Get out the DAG-2 and check it.

FastJake

Yeah, sorry. I probably should've said housing. It's almost impossible to install a cable wrong unless you clamp it really badly. The housing is the part that needs care. It could be that your old housing is dirty/worn and causing the cable to stick. If you detach the cable from the derailer and move it through the sections of housing one at a time (housing still installed) you can see how it feels. It should feel really smooth.

Kimmo

Eliminate cable friction effects by manually assisting the derailleur while shifting.

Only if the poor shifting persists could it be your chain's fault.

Syncmaster

Thanks everyone. I'm going to give all your suggestions a shot and see what happens before I buy anything new. If I can't figure it out I may make an appointment with one of the race mechanics here in the city who runs his own studio. He's the most pro guy I know, just hard to get a hold of.

Just weird to suddenly have this problem. Wish I could pin point it more easily.

Wanderer

One more thing, really two.

Make sure all of your shifty bits are impeccably clean, and lubricated really well. If they are binding anywhere, you are wasting your time.

Always ck the easiest, and most basic first. Worst case scenario, your shifty bits are all clean and freshly lubed. And that's a good base for everything else.

Syncmaster

Shifty bits as in, the inside of the housings? Or as in everything drive train related (derailleurs, brifters, housings). Everything is pretty damn clean as I gave the bike a wash and lube after a race this weekend.

I lubed the housings before I replaced the cables.

As an update, I'm able to shift through the gears, but it's just not perfect as it once was. The biggest issue is shifting from the smallest cog in the rear to the second smallest. Sometimes it'll shift instantly, other times it'll lag for 5 seconds or so before it shifts......

Argh!

jethro56 

If you can get the bike on a workstand or trainer and have someone shift thru the gears while watching closely, you may have a much better shot at seeing what's happening. A bent hanger usually means you can trim the deraileur to a specific gear and as you move away from that spot the pulley will miss align as you move away from there.
My experience with sticky cables/housing is that they show up first when downshifting to a larger sprocket. Classic symptom is having to shift 2 gears and back up one to do a single shift. The rear loop is the most susceptible section for this problem. A real quick check is to take the wheel off then shift to highest gear. Push the deraileur outward to get enough slack in the cable to get the rear cable housing out of the stops. Clean the cable where the housing was with just a rag. Reinstall housing. If the problem goes away for a while, you have your answer. Replacement of the housing will be a function as to how often you need to do this. Even fairly good housing can benefit from this from time to time.

Kimmo

???

fietsbob

FWIW, AFAIK, etc.
Only (shimano) Rapid Rise RD'd go to the biggest Cassette cog on the return spring,
all the others the return spring pulls to the outside, small cog, up shift.

jethro56 

Oops

onespeedbiker

You earier said So it sounds like the problem existed before the cable/chain replacement. The usual suspect here where the shifts were deteriorating and a new chain made it worse would be a worn cassette, but this usually is the result of a very worn chain; I don't suppose you still have the old chain. BTW, there is no way you can tell if a cassette is worn by sight, unless it is extremely worn. The fact that you are having problems with the small cogs also points to a cassette, as the smaller cogs wear faster than the larger cogs. See if you can beg, borrow (don't steal!) a cassette to see if it solves your problem.

Syncmaster

I may be able to borrow another cassette from my brother to see if I get the same effects.

I DO still happen to have the old chain. Was there something you were going to suggest if I did? I mentioned earlier that wear on the chain was at least .5% Wasn't quite at .75% yet.

You guys are all awesome by the way. Thanks for the help.