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How to disassemble a cartridge bottom bracket?

Old 04-28-13, 07:25 AM
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How to disassemble a cartridge bottom bracket?

Hello everybody! This is one of my first posts on the forums

--

How to completely dismantle a cartridge bottom bracket? Does anyone has at least some exploded views of it. I looked all over the net and only found replacement instructions. Please leave the 'why do you even need to do this' for a different topic or at least for -after- I get the answer. Thanks!


Few additional notes:
- planned obsolescence is a #%ch. Have some respect for resources and environment.
- no grease will retain its properties longer than a cartridge bearing
- a cost of a pair of new cartridge bearings is a no higher 1/3 of the cost of a bottom bracket

Last edited by rimbo; 04-28-13 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 04-28-13, 07:49 AM
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Some cheaper Shimano cartridges can be dismantled fairly simply - they have threads on the spindle, and function in a similar way to a cup-and-cone hub, although one cone's fixed.
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Old 04-28-13, 07:50 AM
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As best I can tell from examining several Shimano UN-XX square taper and a Shimano BB-6500 Octalink cartridge bottom brackets the first tool you will need is a can opener. The ends of the outer shell seem to be "turned over" or crimped to hold the seals and bearing in place. I don't see how you can get into the internals in a non-destructive way.

Apparently there is a reason no one publishes exploded views or offers replacement bearings.

Originally Posted by Airburst
Some Shimano cartridges can be dismantled fairly simply - they have threads on the spindle, and function in a similar way to a cup-and-cone hub, although one cone's fixed.
I believe the Dura Ace version of the Octalink (BB-7700) bottom bracket could be disassembled and relubed but it was the only one.
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Old 04-28-13, 07:58 AM
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Can you provide some more details? The most popular cartridges give access to only 3 elements from the outside: the axle, the outer casing (a tube) and a pair of machine bearings. I forgot to specify the type of cartridge I'm after. It's the standard shimano-type bottom bracket cartridge like this one (Shimano UN54):
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=17473

Last edited by rimbo; 04-28-13 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 04-28-13, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider


I believe the Dura Ace version of the Octalink (BB-7700) bottom bracket could be disassembled and relubed but it was the only one.
The one I dismantled was an OEM square taper one on a fairly low-end MTB. I don't know the model, unfortunately.
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Old 04-28-13, 08:01 AM
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The Shimano UN-series square taper bottom brackets do not give you access to the bearings which are sealed inside the outer casing. You have assess only to the spindle ends, the outer casing and the threaded mounting rings.

As I mentioned, it seems you would have to cut into the outer casing to get to the actual bearings.
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Old 04-28-13, 08:03 AM
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I think you will find that standard BBs are ridden to failure and then recycled. Simple as that. They're not meant to be serviced and they will last a very long time on their own. I think that you would find that the life cycle costs, both environmentally and monetarily, are lower using the ride to failure model. Best. Al
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Old 04-28-13, 08:03 AM
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Thanks for all the input but can we focus on Shimano UN54 and likes first, please?

Reasoning aside, even if it's dismantable I'm very curious how they made it as such. If anyone could just use an angle grinder to cut one in half. If not, I'll do it myself next week.

Last edited by rimbo; 04-28-13 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 04-28-13, 08:12 AM
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Yeah, an angle grinder would be a good tool to take one apart. In the following paragraph, I'm using "shell" to refer to the BB outer case. Those UN54 bb are totally unservicable. When they were put together, the shell and all assembled components inside the shell went through a press of some sort that crimps the shell shut. Even if you were to use an angle grinder/dremel tool with cutoff wheel to slice off the crimped end, you could never assemble it back together so that ti would be usable again unless you had access to new virgin shells and the huge press that is in the Shimano factories that crimps everything while keeping the dimensions perfect.

It would be interesting to see one cut open just for sake of seeing what is inside thought but never count on rebuilding one.
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Old 04-28-13, 08:30 AM
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yea lots to practice on , just let the LBS know you want to tear them apart..
since the whole point of them is theyre a fit and forget, and toss in the bin
if not working right, kind of part.

they will save a few from the scrap pile.


want a repairable cartridge bearing BB? Phil Wood..

Axles are pressed in , and sealed bearings pressed in the edges of the shell ..
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Old 04-28-13, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rimbo
Thanks for all the input but can we focus on Shimano UN54 and likes first, please?
I did.
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Old 04-28-13, 08:56 AM
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now that you have some answers.... My suggestion in these cases is to do a standard test. Oh..don't know what a standard test is? Curious ?Glad you asked. Back in the day when I had a potentially bad spark plug on my snowmachine, as we sat out on the tundra at 30 below I was informed that the standard test for spark plugs and all similar parts of similar size and cost was to toss the offending object in a bucket if water. If it floated, you're good. If not....just replace the darned thing! It works for me because just today I was commenting on the snow and we were all discussing what we could do to help contribute and speed up the process of global warming...
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Old 04-28-13, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rimbo
Thanks for all the input but can we focus on Shimano UN54 and likes first, please?
Simple, remove from frame, check measurements against replacement, and place in appropriate recycle bin.

Insert new BB to frame, tighten to correct torque, and refit cranks, place packaging in appropriate recycle bin.

Ride bike

If you haven't got the message yet from all the above posts, cartridge these BB's are NOT user serviceable.
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Old 04-28-13, 08:59 AM
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planned obsolescence is a #%ch. Have some respect for resources and environment.
people want stuff cheap , capitalism does that. goes around the globe to lower costs,

anything else is externalities..

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-28-13 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 04-28-13, 09:03 AM
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Please post a youtube when you start to cut one open....
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Old 04-28-13, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
The Shimano UN-series square taper bottom brackets do not give you access to the bearings which are sealed inside the outer casing. You have assess only to the spindle ends, the outer casing and the threaded mounting rings.

As I mentioned, it seems you would have to cut into the outer casing to get to the actual bearings.
Originally Posted by HillRider
I did.
Oh I know, sorry I just wanted to wait for few more posts before replying. I appreciate your input, of course! It looks like it indeed - the outer casing is press-closed.

Originally Posted by jimc101
Simple, remove from frame, check measurements against replacement, and place in appropriate recycle bin.

Insert new BB to frame, tighten to correct torque, and refit cranks, place packaging in appropriate recycle bin.

Ride bike

If you haven't got the message yet from all the above posts, cartridge these BB's are NOT user serviceable.
Ekhem...
Reasoning aside, even if it's dismantable I'm very curious how they made it as such.
Originally Posted by fietsbob
people want stuff cheap , capitalism does that. goes around the globe to lower costs,

anything else is externalities..
You think lower production costs translate to lower prices? That's so cute

Originally Posted by curbtender
Please post a youtube when you start to cut one open....
I have one BB to test my fury on. Totally flattened the bearing balls the first time I tried to open with with a special, professional, premium, genuine 3-kilogram hammer and an anvil. The anvil was of regular sort, so maybe this is where the culprit lies

Of course I will post some pictures after opening the casing.

BTW, I may not like that the cartridge BBs are not serviceable but they are still a huge step forward compared to the BB bearing systems I'm used to ("cone", non-integral), which were IMO some piss-poor pieces of engineering. Together with the standard freewheel systems (rear wheel, gearing, the ones screwed onto a thread on the rear hub) they represent the type of engineering I'm surprise anyone stepped forward to say 'this is my design'.

Last edited by rimbo; 04-28-13 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 04-28-13, 09:57 AM
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Rimbo, I'm more-or-less with you on the serviceability front. It seems like the replace-not-repair ethos has permeated everything, having taken a little longer to reach the bike world than everything else.

I'd say that if you feel strongly enough about it, you ought to switch to cup-and-cone bottom brackets while those parts are still available. I was going strong, but after a stray piece of grit found its way into two repack jobs despite lots of care on my part, I threw up my hands and ordered cartridges.
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Old 04-28-13, 10:11 AM
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Here is a question i wonder about, is it possible to drill a hole in the middle of a cartridge bb that will allow you to inject grease into? Then you could pull the BB, pull a little rubber plug that you put into the hole and inject it full of grease till grease starts to seep out the side of the rubber seals (ala a car's ball joint) and then put the plug back in and put the BB back into the bike.
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Old 04-28-13, 10:15 AM
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Now that you need to get a new one, step up to a Phil Wood. You can take them apart easily. Expense is the downside, but they really last. bk
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Old 04-28-13, 10:33 AM
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There are cartridge bottom brackets that can be rebuilt and those that cannot be rebuilt, Shimano falls into the latter category.

The production cost of cartridge bottom brackets is much less than a high quality cup and cone assembly since there is no need for the quality of steel required to machine cups and races and the manufacturing steps are reduced.

Some relatively inexpensive cartridge bottom brackets only have press fit sleeves and can be disassembled rather easily... have been surprised to find that some cartridge bottom brackets that cost less actually have some high quality bearings inside and that the service life is comparable to Shimano's offerings.
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Old 04-28-13, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bobotech
Here is a question i wonder about, is it possible to drill a hole in the middle of a cartridge bb that will allow you to inject grease into? Then you could pull the BB, pull a little rubber plug that you put into the hole and inject it full of grease till grease starts to seep out the side of the rubber seals (ala a car's ball joint) and then put the plug back in and put the BB back into the bike.
Yeah, a variation on the old Sun Tour "Grease Guard" system might work. The "problem" is that decent cartridge bbs last so long that is there any incentive to relube them? I've gotten well over 30,000 miles on several UN and Octalink versions.

To the OP: Fietsbob is correct that if you really want a rebuildable cartridge bottom bracket buy a Phil Wood. Their major downside is their very high initial cost with the cartridges running from $130 to over $300 and the mounting cups from $40 to $60 depending on the materials of construction and configuration. Also, a pair of their replacement bearings cost as much as most complete cartridge bottom brackets. So, if you are dedicated to fighting planned obsolescence and money isn't an issue, there is an alternative.
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Old 04-28-13, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Rimbo, I'm more-or-less with you on the serviceability front. It seems like the replace-not-repair ethos has permeated everything, having taken a little longer to reach the bike world than everything else.

I'd say that if you feel strongly enough about it, you ought to switch to cup-and-cone bottom brackets while those parts are still available. I was going strong, but after a stray piece of grit found its way into two repack jobs despite lots of care on my part, I threw up my hands and ordered cartridges.
No wonder! I despise the "cones" You've missed my note on that in the previous post.

Originally Posted by bobotech
Here is a question i wonder about, is it possible to drill a hole in the middle of a cartridge bb that will allow you to inject grease into? Then you could pull the BB, pull a little rubber plug that you put into the hole and inject it full of grease till grease starts to seep out the side of the rubber seals (ala a car's ball joint) and then put the plug back in and put the BB back into the bike.
It is possible and it is a good idea. I'll be investigating it. I'm an engineer and raised in a improvise and re-use culture so IF I get into it you may be sure I'll deliver an optimal solution. The only downside to re-greasing through such a hole would be the high amount of grease needed. Possibly tenfold of what you'd normally use to lubricate the bearings when granted free access to them. A nice solution would be to drill a hole, thread the hole, screw a grease fitting into it, connect a grease gun, re-grease, unscrew the grease fitting, plug the hole.

Originally Posted by bkaapcke
Now that you need to get a new one, step up to a Phil Wood. You can take them apart easily. Expense is the downside, but they really last. bk
Nah. It looks like 10 times as expensive as the cartridges I aim at.

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver

Some relatively inexpensive cartridge bottom brackets only have press fit sleeves and can be disassembled rather easily... have been surprised to find that some cartridge bottom brackets that cost less actually have some high quality bearings inside and that the service life is comparable to Shimano's offerings.
Care to drop few model names?

Originally Posted by HillRider
Yeah, a variation on the old Sun Tour "Grease Guard" system might work. The "problem" is that decent cartridge bbs last so long that is there any incentive to relube them? I've gotten well over 30,000 miles on several UN and Octalink versions.

To the OP: Fietsbob is correct that if you really want a rebuildable cartridge bottom bracket buy a Phil Wood. Their major downside is their very high initial cost with the cartridges running from $130 to over $300 and the mounting cups from $40 to $60 depending on the materials of construction and configuration. Also, a pair of their replacement bearings cost as much as most complete cartridge bottom brackets. So, if you are dedicated to fighting planned obsolescence and money isn't an issue, there is an alternative.
It's a common misconception. 'Not under planned obsolescence is a luxury' is very effectively planted into our consumer minds. Well, it's not as easy to plant such bollocks into minds of engineers and people with basic understanding of metal works, such as myself There's no need to ramp-up an element price to provide its serviceability. Our Shimano BB cartridges here are a good example. The only thing missing is the ability to dismantle them. A casing that would allow this would cost probably twice as much. Since the casing is about 20% of the whole BB price it would mean the total BB price would have to be higher by 20%. In case of the model I use it would give $30 instead of $25.

Last edited by rimbo; 04-28-13 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 04-28-13, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rimbo
No wonder! I despise the "cones" You've missed my note on that in the previous post.
I did -- sometimes I take a long time to compose posts, and I missed your edit.

Seems like there was a decent "instructable" on adding zerk fittings to cartridge BBs at one point, but I can't find it now. There's a lot of extra space inside one of those, so the guy needed to add quite a lot of fresh grease.
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Old 04-28-13, 11:35 AM
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LOL, so we'll make a more expensive BB that costs more time to service than it would to replace. I don't see the logic in that myself but then again I'm not an engineer so it's pretty much assumed that I know nothing about anything.
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Old 04-28-13, 11:51 AM
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I expect the factory in Asia, has a automated machine that has parts hoppers, for the various
component parts of the UN BBs,
and the people just fill the hoppers, the rest is done fast and cheap by the machine..

cost to actually make it, the part, is perhaps $2. then Real engineers make high efficiency manufacturing machinery, that then make cheap bike parts.


for U$D 30 that is still too low , try $100. https://www.lickbike.com/productpage....B='0155-05'

As I said, those can be serviced..

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-28-13 at 12:04 PM.
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