Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Rear derailleur very hesitant in the higher cogs?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Rear derailleur very hesitant in the higher cogs?

Old 04-30-13, 07:54 PM
  #1  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rear derailleur very hesitant in the higher cogs?

Hi
I just replaced for new shifter cable/chain/cassette (11-28) all Shimano, and my SRAM Force rear derailleur is very hesitant when shifting down to the last cog (11t).
I didn't replace any cables as it's all internal cabling (Specialized Roubaix) - I have maybe 1000 miles on the components.

Anyone have any ideas about this?
I checked the outer limit and the derailleur does move outward to the last cog, but never shifts over.

I'm stumped!
xfimpg is offline  
Old 04-30-13, 08:07 PM
  #2  
rdtompki
Senior Member
 
rdtompki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hollister, CA
Posts: 3,957

Bikes: Volagi, daVinci Joint Venture

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I'm sure a mix and match expert will chime in, but is this the same setup you were running before? I'm not certain your Shimano shifter is compatible with the Force RD without some sort accommodation: Shiftmate, alternate cable routing?
rdtompki is offline  
Old 04-30-13, 08:11 PM
  #3  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rdtompki View Post
I'm sure a mix and match expert will chime in, but is this the same setup you were running before? I'm not certain your Shimano shifter is compatible with the Force RD without some sort accommodation: Shiftmate, alternate cable routing?
Sorry! I meant that the gruppo is all SRAM, just the cassette and chain are Shimano (got fed up of those powerlocks).
xfimpg is offline  
Old 04-30-13, 08:47 PM
  #4  
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9,438

Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
This sounds like a typical case of a bit too much tension on the rear derailleur cable, but there are other possibilities. You could try turning the rear barrel adjuster clockwise 1/2 turn or so.
With the 11 cog you need the special 11 cog lock ring.
You could try lubricating or replacing the short housing loop just before the rear derailleur.
I'm assuming that you've checked the adjustment on the rear derailleur high limit screw.

Last edited by Al1943; 04-30-13 at 09:13 PM.
Al1943 is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 04:58 AM
  #5  
dsbrantjr
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,055

Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1333 Post(s)
Liked 821 Times in 574 Posts
"I checked the outer limit and the derailleur does move outward to the last cog, but never shifts over."

I adjust the limit screws by performance, not position. I set the limit just outwards enough that the shift to the small ring is crisp and no farther; I don't even look at it while I am doing this. I shift up and down by pulling on the exposed shift cable, not with the shifter. I do not know if you can use this method with your internal cabling.

If the derailleur still moves sluggishly, it may be time to consider replacing or at least lubricating your cables. Pay special attention to the last loop of cable going to the derailleur, it tends to catch and hold grit and water.
dsbrantjr is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 09:42 AM
  #6  
cny-bikeman 
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 7,510

Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes:Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
First adjust the outer limit with no cable tension on the derailleur. Push it in by hand and release until the derailleur shifts readily to the small cog. If there is still a problem after reconnecting the cable and adjusting tension then there is excess friction in the cable/housing preventing the derailleur spring (which is under the least tension shifting to the small cog) from completing the shift. You will need to lubricate or replace the cable.
__________________
There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
cny-bikeman is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 11:03 AM
  #7  
tahoeeddie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 70

Bikes: 2012 Cervelo R3 Team

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
+1 for cny-bikeman's recommendation.
tahoeeddie is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 11:07 AM
  #8  
Ferrous Bueller
absent
 
Ferrous Bueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DC
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
^if that doesn't resolve it, I'd look at the hanger alignment.
That's actually one of the first things I'd have looked at.
Ferrous Bueller is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 03:30 PM
  #9  
cny-bikeman 
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 7,510

Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes:Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Ferrous Bueller View Post
^if that doesn't resolve it, I'd look at the hanger alignment.
That's actually one of the first things I'd have looked at.
That's not really logical when the OP has replaced the derailleur, as he is adjusting from scratch rather than readjusting a derailleur that may have had a hanger bent in after initial mounting.
__________________
There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
cny-bikeman is offline  
Old 05-01-13, 06:26 PM
  #10  
TrojanHorse
SuperGimp
 
TrojanHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 13,346

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 147 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
Your OP is confusing... did you replace the shift cables or not? You say you did and then you say you didn't.

Replacing only the chain doesn't affect the RD at all but it's possible you don't have the cassette mounted correctly. It's also possible your hanger is bent or the cable tension is too high or if you replaced the cables, it's possible you crossed them inside the down tube and the additional tension is preventing the RD from shifting to the small cog.
TrojanHorse is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 06:50 AM
  #11  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
Your OP is confusing... did you replace the shift cables or not? You say you did and then you say you didn't.

Replacing only the chain doesn't affect the RD at all but it's possible you don't have the cassette mounted correctly. It's also possible your hanger is bent or the cable tension is too high or if you replaced the cables, it's possible you crossed them inside the down tube and the additional tension is preventing the RD from shifting to the small cog.
I replaced the cables last summer and rode about 1000 miles since.... so i think you guys are right about replacing them again.
xfimpg is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 07:10 AM
  #12  
Ferrous Bueller
absent
 
Ferrous Bueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DC
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
That's not really logical when the OP has replaced the derailleur, as he is adjusting from scratch rather than readjusting a derailleur that may have had a hanger bent in after initial mounting.
Correct me if I'm wrong: I think you're saying that since he hasn't changed the RD, the alignment should be the same as before. I agree.
But the new cassette may be sitting differently on the freehub than the old. The RD may need a slightly different range of movement. If the chain has a hard time reaching the small cog, the alignment is a very appropriate thing to check. I'd do it before purchasing any more parts.
Ferrous Bueller is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 09:25 AM
  #13  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks guys for staying tuned... here's what I found:

- I removed the cable from the RD and undid the low limit screw and the chain stays in the 9th cog, never shifts down to the 10th. The RD looks very straight and it's aligned halfway between the 9th and 10th cog. I can hear it trying to shift to 10th.

- I removed the 1mm spacer between the 105 cassette and the hub, but when I reinstall and retighten the cassette it's quite loose. With the spacer it's quite tight.

Stumped again!

EDIT: I did replace all the cabling just to be on the safe side.
xfimpg is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 09:46 AM
  #14  
cny-bikeman 
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 7,510

Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes:Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by xfimpg View Post
Thanks guys for staying tuned... here's what I found:

- I removed the cable from the RD and undid the low limit screw and the chain stays in the 9th cog, never shifts down to the 10th. The RD looks very straight and it's aligned halfway between the 9th and 10th cog. I can hear it trying to shift to 10th.

- I removed the 1mm spacer between the 105 cassette and the hub, but when I reinstall and retighten the cassette it's quite loose. With the spacer it's quite tight.

Stumped again!

EDIT: I did replace all the cabling just to be on the safe side.
Several things to clarify:

You said LOW limit screw - did you mean the HIGH limit?

If you "undid" or backed off the high limit screw did the derailleur keep moving out as you did so? Are the pulleys out further than the small cog?

Is your chain properly sized? (Google install bicycle chain rather than discussing it yet again in a thread)

It's not sensible to replace the cabling until you have determined the cause is not something else - and obviously it is.
__________________
There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
cny-bikeman is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 09:47 AM
  #15  
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9,438

Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by xfimpg View Post
- I removed the 1mm spacer between the 105 cassette and the hub, but when I reinstall and retighten the cassette it's quite loose. With the spacer it's quite tight.

EDIT: I did replace all the cabling just to be on the safe side.
You need the spacer with the Shimano 10-speed cassette.

Did you replace the short cable housing just before the derailleur? The housings are just as important as the cables. The short housing should be about 30 cm long.
Al1943 is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 10:08 AM
  #16  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
Several things to clarify:

You said LOW limit screw - did you mean the HIGH limit?
Yes, sorry! I meant "high limit screw".

Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
If you "undid" or backed off the high limit screw did the derailleur keep moving out as you did so? Are the pulleys out further than the small cog?
(I moved the chain manually to the smallest cog) Yes it kept moving out and the pulleys are farther out than the smallest cog.

Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
Is your chain properly sized? (Google install bicycle chain rather than discussing it yet again in a thread)
I used the same length as the previous chain, 108 links for a 50-34 / 11-28. I used this equation L = 2 (C) + (F/4 + R/4 + 1) ; 54.5" = 2 (16.5) + (50/4 + 28/4 + 1)

It's not sensible to replace the cabling until you have determined the cause is not something else - and obviously it is.[/QUOTE]


Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
You need the spacer with the Shimano 10-speed cassette.

Did you replace the short cable housing just before the derailleur? The housings are just as important as the cables. The short housing should be about 30 cm long.
The short cable housing is 25cm; is that an issue?
xfimpg is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 10:16 AM
  #17  
Ferrous Bueller
absent
 
Ferrous Bueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DC
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by xfimpg View Post
The RD looks very straight and it's aligned halfway between the 9th and 10th cog. I can hear it trying to shift to 10th...
Originally Posted by xfimpg View Post
(I moved the chain manually to the smallest cog) Yes it kept moving out and the pulleys are farther out than the smallest cog...
Are you saying the derailleur's spring is somehow unable to move the derailleur out on its own?
Have you cleaned and lubed it? Is something impeding its movement?
Ferrous Bueller is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 10:19 AM
  #18  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ferrous Bueller View Post
Are you saying the derailleur's spring is somehow unable to move the derailleur out on its own?
Have you cleaned and lubed it? Is something impeding its movement?
The spring is moving the RD on its own, I can see it when I screw-unscrew the high limit screw.
As it sits in 10th, the RD pulleys are farther outwards than the largest cog.
xfimpg is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 10:31 AM
  #19  
Ferrous Bueller
absent
 
Ferrous Bueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DC
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If the chain still won't go into 10th, I really think it's an alignment problem.
A more subtle version of this:
Ferrous Bueller is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 10:37 AM
  #20  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ferrous Bueller View Post
If the chain still won't go into 10th, I really think it's an alignment problem.
A more subtle version of this:
Yikes! yeah that is pretty off!
Mine is more towards the outside, i would say pulleys about 1-2 mm outwards.

I just finished recabling so i'm going to re-try and post the results.

Thanks again!
xfimpg is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 12:27 PM
  #21  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok guys, I found it.
The front pulley of the RD was loose, like really loose. I guess I couldn't see that being hidden away back there.
All is good now.
Thanks again for your help and patience.
Mike

PS. Flame-away if you need to!
xfimpg is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 01:03 PM
  #22  
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9,438

Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by xfimpg View Post

The short cable housing is 25cm; is that an issue?
Don't know, but maybe. It needs to be a nice smooth curve. The short housings included in Shimano and Campy kits are in the 11.5 inch to 30 cm range. 25 cm seems a bit short to me.
Al1943 is offline  
Old 05-02-13, 03:27 PM
  #23  
xfimpg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
xfimpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,137

Bikes: RichardZEP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Don't know, but maybe. It needs to be a nice smooth curve. The short housings included in Shimano and Campy kits are in the 11.5 inch to 30 cm range. 25 cm seems a bit short to me.
I agree and i made another one of 30cm.
xfimpg is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Redbullet
Bicycle Mechanics
5
09-26-15 05:22 PM
thnksfrtht
Bicycle Mechanics
16
05-15-12 05:33 AM
siovene
Bicycle Mechanics
6
08-12-10 08:19 AM
grall1126
Bicycle Mechanics
5
02-07-10 05:21 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.