At $33 how much do you think the LBS really made after paying their costs for the labor, spoke and nipple? And then figure this has to go against his rent and overhead cost of buying and maintaining the tools needed in the shop to make the repair.

the point early in the thread about the cheapest bikes being hardest to work on DOES NOT apply to $800 Cannondales.
It applies to dept-store bikes.

The bike shop's mistake is in their repair description, which lends itself to just this type of problem. "Replace spoke, true and tension rear wheel to spec." is only slightly longer and better describes to the customer the work involved. It also tells the shop what was done if the customer returns.

Well, the 29er spoke I just bought four of was $1.50ea., and then I was quoted $35.00 to put those three in, and true the wheel. LOL

I was amazed, and told the guy that the last time I was here, and had one spoke fixed with truing it was $20.00. At which time the little turd bike repair punk I was talking to said, "if you don't like our prices there are other shops in town." I then told him that was no problem, I would do it myself, and that I was working on bicycles before he was even born, and then I let management know he was an asswipe also. I did fix it myself, and it came out well. You can also refer to this site http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/ under the fixit tab, for more info.

A few things:

An $850 bike is neither cheap nor low end. Probably 5% of riders have a bike that costs more than that.

There's absolutely no way to tell if $33 was fair/appropriate - we weren't there to see what was needed to tension, round and true the wheel, whether it needed a hub adjustment, was dirty, if the tire or rim strip was badly stuck to the rim, etc.

I don't understand people who don't get an estimate before dropping a bike off for repair.

As a former service manager I also don't understand a shop that does not voluntarily give an estimate. We always gave at least a range for every job, with a 10% allowance. Anything more than that and we would call the customer to explain the need for extra charges, unless we were told - "Do what's needed."

we always give estimates. if there is a tuneup involved then the there is a contingency built into the estimate also. customers that tell us to do what is needed know that we will fix everything but not rip them off

I also have to wonder if a customer with an attitude in which they describe a "little turd bike repair punk" is getting an "Make it worth our while to deal with this person" upcharge.

OK, just #1 fact I gotta point out: my LBS charges $40/wheel to BUILD a wheel. As in, they take a hub, 36 spokes, 36 nipples, and a rim and turn it into a nicely built wheel for $40 labor, plus parts. They ask you bring it back to be re-tensioned after you ride it for a bit, but that follow-up service is included in the $40 price.

So, yeah, i think $2 for a spoke they got for 50cents and $33 to put it into an existing wheel is steep, even if they did go over the wheel to make sure it was true and tensioned afterwards. Not outrageous, but a bit steep. As usual, I think everyone crying about the plight of the shops, who buy $4000 spoke cutting machines, and who have to pay rent, and pay their employees a few bucks over minimum is a bit ridiculous, but that's how shops do.... so, the trick lies in how we deal with shops.

I do basically most of the work on my bikes. I used to work at a shop on weekends, doing a little of everything-- I knew quite a bit going in, learned quite a bit while I was there, but I've still got a ways to go on some things. (Frame repair, suspension stuff, and while I can lace a wheel and make minor adjustments, I have never developed the skills/patience to build one from start to finish...) So, sometimes I drop stuff off at the bike shop. These guys know me; it's the same owner as when I worked there, I'm regular enough to know all the drones by name, and they know I send them a fair bit of business whenever I can. Even then, I don't leave my bike there without confirming the cost before I agree to the repair and leave it there. If I broke a spoke and left it to be replaced, I'd want an estimate on the cost. I'd be comfortable with a range..." anywhere from $x to $xx, depending on the condition of the rest of the wheel--- can't say for sure until we have it in the stand", but I'd expect the owner to contact me before he did anything that'd go far out of that range.

Wherever you stand on LBS pricing-- whether you believe that shops are money-hungry snakes or whether you believe that shops need to charge big prices to stay afloat-- we all know that stuff doesn't get done in the LBS for cheap. If you're on a budget, or otherwise stingy, you'll want to talk $$ before you drop your bike off.

No, it's not out of line.

For you, I'd suggest that you ask about costs prior to the service, not after the work is done.

I can't believe that there are shops around that still charge $40.00 to build a wheel. When I first started building them 20yrs ago we charged $50.00/wheel. It's double that now.

How long does it take you to build a wheel? What are your posted labor rates?

Depends on the wheel. A Mavic OP 32 spoke wheel takes about 8-9mins to lace, then maybe 45-55mins to finish. A carbon rim w/ Aerolites and internal nipples? Maybe twice that. Since we're talking about wheel building, as I said...$100.00. Are you talking about other jobs?
Basic tune $100.00
Full tune $225.00
Spoke replace $30.00
Der. adjust $20.00
Flat repair $15.00

I don't have formal shop rates, since I'm not running a full time shop.

My price depends on how much of the pats used are brought in vs. bought from me. For labor alone I charge $60.00, as a base rate. I add extra for alloy nipples or special lacing patterns, but will discount the labor if I'm making good money on the parts.

I got quotes from my two local LBS's about rebuilding a 48 spoke tandem wheel with my hub & rim. Both of them quoted $60 + spokes. $60 is their usual hourly rate.

I was talking about an hourly labor rate-- $100/hour seems steep to me, but good for you if you're getting it. I suspect my shop prolly charges differently for any unconventional wheel that takes longer to build. If they don't they should. But I think that Justin can build me a f/r set in a little over an hour, and he prolly spends more time going over them excessively if it's a slow day at the shop.... so, $40/wheel comes out to about $75/hour....a heckuva lot more than the owner is paying him per hour....

About $1.32 at the end of the day. We work on a 4% net margin overall. A super-efficient, well-capitalized shop that paid cash for all its inventory, that is, they pay no interest on it, might clear up to $4 on that transaction.

Might be time for a new profession, if that's even remotely true. That would mean that you're losing money just keeping a minimum-wage mechanic employed at all, even if he replaces a spoke every hour for each hour that he works. If your estimate is accurate, then there would be no bikeshops. Zero.

No, he's talking profit on that transaction after wages, rent, etc. - $33 x 4% = $1.32. That's not great - a Million in sales is only 40k net - but there are many industries with lower profit margins. I would hope the owner's salary has already been taken out.

That was "4% NET margin overall" on the total charge which included retail labor. Really, most shops charge enough to cover known expenses and profit, but not to cover a huge intangible: risk.

OP did not say where they are .. so I project.

NYC, for example is not .. some place cheap, to do business.

you may need to find a job that pays better, so it , hiring the services of other people,
is not such an issue.

Yep...he's pretty much dead on w/ the 4% number. That's after everything is paid for. Inventory, and all bills. All payroll. People (99% of them anyway) don't get into the bike business to get rich.

Surreal, do you know ANYONE making a killing running an LBS?

About $15 at my LBS. $1.50 for the spoke, $12 for labor, and 8% in tax.

I often think my guys don't charge enough. But the work is always good.

Absolutely not. The D&Q owners in Cherry Hill NJ purportedly did back at the turn-of-the-century, but not so much anymore. I think most of 'em make somewhere between a "killing" and the $1.32/hour quoted above. I think they'd make more if they sold more, and I think they'd sell more if they had competitive prices.

Which ones make money on the killing end?