Metaluna

I have some Shimano XT SPD pedals that I recently took off one of my bikes. They only have maybe 4000 miles on them, mostly on dry paved roads, but I'm a clyde and do my share of hill climbing, so I'm probably harder on them than average.

Anyway, I noticed a tiny bit of play in the spindles, and I'm wondering if this is okay. It's hard to quantify though...I'd say its about the same amount of play that you would allow in a wheel bearing before the quick release is tightened down. Maybe a bit more than that. Do people typically service these, or is it more of a ride to destruction, then discard type of a component?

cny-bikeman

Probably fine, some may overhaul, most don't.

TallRider

If the bearings are serviceable, adjust them now. Play in bearings means they wear out quicker.
But were any of the XT-level SPD pedals serviceable? Most clipless pedals don't have serviceable bearings, which means you just ride it until the play starts to become a biomechanical problem for your pedaling. Then replace.

Metaluna

I do believe these are serviceable. There's a locknut where the spindle enters the pedal body that you can unscrew, then remove the bearing assembly. Beyond that I'm not sure if these are cartridge or loose ball, as all the instructions I've found are for other models of Shimano SPDs, but are probably close enough to figure out the rest. Just getting the spindle out doesn't mean the innards are serviceable though. I won't know until I get in there.

I played around with loosening these locknuts, but one of them is jammed pretty tight, so I would need to figure out a way to immobilize the pedal body so I can unscrew it. I don't have a bench vise available, otherwise I'd wrap the pedal in something soft and hold it with the jaws.

If I do attempt to service them, should I assume that, unlike wheel bearings, these should be adjusted for zero play?

TallRider

I think "locknut" is the wrong word - it sounds like it's holding the bearing assembly together. I think you're talking about whatever holds the bearing unit into the pedal body? Sometimes they take a special wrench.

If these are cartridge bearings, some side-to-side play might be normal. Depends on the design. FBinNY probably knows.

jowilson

I serviced one of my clipless pedals last week because it had a bit of play in it as well. The bearings are flipping tiny-- 1/8" or 3/32" I think, so I recommend using a magnetic parts bowl if you have one. You need some special sockets for disassembly and reassembly. You may be able to get them on the Shimano website. Reassembly was a PITA for me because I didn't use tweezers to get the bearings in, and I also lost a bearing which I was able to find after a while.

Metaluna

This picture has a good view of the nut I'm talking about. These appear to be my exact pedals, i.e. PD-M780



It's just a hex head, maybe 18mm or so. There's even printing on the pedal showing which direction to turn, so it seems like they intended it to be removed. I managed to loosen one with an adjustable wrench but didn't try to actually take the whole thing apart yet.

Some of the lower end SPD's, like the M520 and 530 use an odd splined collar to hold the spindle in. I have a pair of those too, so I'll probably have to figure out what tool I'll need there eventually as well.

TallRider

okay, that's the kinda setup I thought you were talking about. Probably the best you can do is hold pedal body in vice-grips. put a rag around it first and try not to be holding tightly onto spring-loaded steel sections that could get messed up. Maybe you'll want to drip some liquid wrench or PB blaster into the margin between that silver nut and the black pedal body (you'd rather not drip it into the bearings along the axle).

I have no idea if the axle is serviceable or if this is just a cartridge unit designed to screw one out and put a new cartridge unit in. I suppose you can figure that out by removing the axle from the pedal whose nut would turn.

I've seen splined nuts (perhaps a different spline or different diameter than the Shimano splined collar) on other pedals as well, like this Nashbar-branded Look-style pedals.

gregjones

520 video

Maybe this will help.

TallRider

aaaand that's the answer

davidad

It takes a 17mm wrench to remove the axle assembly. The bearings are adjustable and should have a little preload and no play. After the adjustment clean out the housing and fill it with grease. When you reinstall the axle assembly the new grease will push out the old.

tomacropod

You don't need to remove all the tiny balls. You can typically clean and reverse them in situ, then readjust using your spanners or the SPD tool. Leave the pedal on the crank if you don't have a vice.

- Joel

Metaluna

I managed to unscrew the stuck pedal with a 17mm wrench and some padded Vise Grips across one of the flat sections of the pedal. After completely unscrewing the locking collar and removing the spindle, I could see the assembly that holds the bearings. I'm waiting for my order of 3/32" balls to show up before I do the servicing, but so far the internals look very similar to the M520 video that gregjones posted earlier. There look to be 12 3/32" balls on each "side" of the bearing, just like the M520, but the locknut that holds the "upper" cone and the rest of the assembly together is 7mm instead of 8mm. It appears that the spindle itself serves as the "lower" cone (i.e. the end closest to the crankarm), whereas in the video for the M520 it looks like there's some kind of radiused washer that serves this role.

I used an old crankarm to support the left pedal while I was taking this all apart. A Park AV-4 clamped into a real vise would be ideal I think, especially for the right side.

By the way, a number of online shopping sites (e.g. Nashbar, Performance Bike, Wiggle) describe these pedals as having sealed cartridge bearings, but that is clearly not correct. Or, at least, it's not the same kind of sealed, radial bearing that I envision when I hear "cartridge".

Delmarva

If the old ball bearings are not visibly damaged just reuse them. No need to replace.

Metaluna

New ball bearings are so cheap though (literally $5.00, including shipping, to do both pedals with Grade 25 3/32" balls), that it seems like more effort than it's worth to clean and inspect 48 tiny balls, without losing any, and keeping them organized into groups so you don't mix sides, etc.

Andrew R Stewart 

Given what i see riders putting up with every day at my work, I'd say the amount of play allowible is totally up to the rider. As long as the play is not increasing (as in things coming loose) or so much slop so that your foot's position or release is effected then it really doesn't matter.

Any bearing assemble really wants some play for longevity. I know what others have said, my experience just doesn't bear this out. Preload is work hardening the surfaces and the very slight play that a "perfectly" adjusted bearing should have won't be enough to induce denting from impacts (due to the play). Many manufacturers of components state that some play (with bearings) is needed. But the amount should be very small. Andy.

robertorolfo

***Disclaimer*** Yes, I know I'm replying to a 5 year old thread, but it's on the exact topic I'm interested in... ***

I'm about to start another pedal rebuild, and I just wanted to bring up the bearing adjustment question again. I've done a couple in the past, and I do generally leave just the slightest hint of play in the spindle, but my most recent pedal rebuild has been creaking (although they were very heavily used pedals that I purchased cheap and tried to rejuvenate, so they might just have been too far gone).

So it looks like Andy is in the 'some slight play is good camp,' and I wanted to hear what experiences others have had?

The pedals in question are older clip/cage style Miche and Ofmega units (they were pretty much identical to the Campagnolos of the period, and Gipiemme made a similar model as well). As a bonus, if anyone knows details about these pedals, I'd be happy to learn more, because they seem nearly identical to me.

davidad

Don't take the cartridge apart. Clean it and inspect the balls. I'd bet they are OK (if they still have a bright finish). You want to adjust the bearing so that there is a very small amount of drag to set the preload. Clean out the pedal housing and fill it with new grease. Replace the cartridge and as you tighten it the old grease will be pushed out of the seal. You should be good for 5k miles unless you ride a lot in the wet.
I haven't been able to ride for a while, but I have put 60 or 70K miles on my SPDs over the years since 2000.

Spoonrobot 

I'd be careful with a pedal that creaks, if it's actually the pedal and not something else. That's usually an indication there's a crack somewhere.

Andrew R Stewart 

Well, A creak is often an indication that two pieces are slightly moving WRT each other. But a pedal has many pieces that are bolted together and it's these pieces that are most likely to develop some minor movement. I do agree that with an otherwise single piece component (like a frame with no other parts yet on it) creaks are not a good thing.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I read of a possible crack Andy

CliffordK

If I'm taking the time to tear it open, then I'll usually also clean and grease everything.

Those Shimano pedal bearings look daunting, but once you figure it out, they go together quite easily. They're essentially set into a sleeve that you can't drop balls into the wrong spot (probably). And, everything is open and easy to adjust.

I reuse a lot of bearings, but that same $5 will buy you several hundred of the balls... for several services.

robertorolfo

Apologies if I didn't describe them accurately, but the bearings are loose balls, and there are no real seals (in the modern sense of the term, only dust caps). No cartridge to replace either.

It's definitely a pedal, and I was fairly sure I isolated the noise to the pedal, at an exact point in the stroke, and changing out the pedal eliminated the noise immediately.

As I said, these pedals seems very heavily used, but since they are fairly straightforward in nature I figured a full strip, clean and re-grease would bring them back. And, functionally, they are perfect. No issues in use, just that little annoying sound. I've tried tightening them a bit more in the cranks, and they I tried tightening the bearing adjustment slightly (there was a little play), but the noise remains. I'll probably end up getting new bearing balls, and maybe even seeing if one of those MKS spindles will fit (since they look almost identical externally). It's not the end of the world, I'm just making sure I avoid any possible mistakes on my next rebuilds.

davidad

Sorry. I didn't pay attention to the date. That type of bearing should be adjusted so that there is a slight preload. This explains preload. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/bb-adjust.html

robertorolfo

So this seems to be at the heart of his reasoning, "Without preload that causes this drag, the spindle will be riding on a single ball as each ball passes under the load."

Andrew R, since you seemed to advise against pre-load, what say you?

I can't exactly say why (not in mathematical or physics terms, anyway), but pedal bearings just seem to me like they aren't quite the same as BB, headset and wheel bearings, in terms of operation and conditions. There should never really be any up and down, or back and forth, playing or vibrating of these bearings. Unlike the others, they are subject to a pretty constant force in a single direction, no? I'm just spitballing here, but I just get the feeling that pedal bearings are different than the others.

fietsbob

I dont own any Shimano SPuD pedals .. I see them in the Shop..
as I recall
they use a sub-assembly (& new Axle)which the plastic splines, or that hex, unscrew..
the bearing balls are tiny in that.

Search, you might find the bearing sub assembly , as a replacement part .
Owing to distribution costs buying one of their more basic SPuD pedals will cost less ..
+ you get another Cleat.



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