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dura Ace Di2 10 speed on the new Orbea Ordu 2013

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dura Ace Di2 10 speed on the new Orbea Ordu 2013

Old 06-30-13, 04:04 AM
  #1  
arabianranches
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dura Ace Di2 10 speed on the new Orbea Ordu 2013

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Hi,

I have the new 2013 Orbea Ordu frameset and a 10speed Dura Ace Di2.

I assumed (there was my first mistake) that the frameset would be compatible.Put the frame and said Di2 into my LBS to get installed and a day later got the dreaded call...The plugs on the DA Di2 10 speed are too big to pass through the hole. My LBS are obviously very wary of extending the holes out and even say the cable will not be able to pass through the internal cable area from the rear derailleur to the BB area. I assume drilling out the holes in the frame shouldn't be too big a deal for the bike shop. They are just very wary about doing this. Also I guess it invalidates the warranty?

Has anyone else had this issue?

cheers
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Old 06-30-13, 05:12 AM
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Damn, that thing is pimpin.

Total mystery why the Di2 plugs don't fit; that frame doesn't even look like it's for a mechanical system, judging from that hole near the FD.

Maybe you got old stock of an early version of Di2? Perhaps you can see a difference if you check out a spare loom.
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Old 06-30-13, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Damn, that thing is pimpin.

Total mystery why the Di2 plugs don't fit; that frame doesn't even look like it's for a mechanical system, judging from that hole near the FD.

Maybe you got old stock of an early version of Di2? Perhaps you can see a difference if you check out a spare loom.
Hi, The Dura Ace Di2 is last years, it is the the internal routing kit (EW-7975).The connectors are larger on the 10Speed DA (7970/7971) than the new 11Speed DA Di2 or the Ultegra Di2. I cant believe that they have engineered it in such a way that I would need to either upgrade to 11 speed (which costs a fortune and I don't have the money) or take the Ultegra Di2...why would I want to go from Dura Ace to Ultegra at more cost to myself.
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Old 06-30-13, 05:27 AM
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Going to take a guess here, that as you have got a version of DI2 which was obsolete by they time your frame was designed, the frame is just incompatible, and will never work with it.

7970 had a different cable harness spec to the current 6770 & 9070, can't see why a bike manufacture would design a frame for 2013 for parts which were no longer produced, and where the current version needs different sized holes.
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Old 06-30-13, 05:27 AM
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I don't know the first thing about widening holes into carbon frames, but I am imagine that is the only solution (apart from the 3000USD new 11speed Di2 option)
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Old 06-30-13, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
Going to take a guess here, that as you have got a version of DI2 which was obsolete by they time your frame was designed, the frame is just incompatible, and will never work with it.

7970 had a different cable harness spec to the current 6770 & 9070, can't see why a bike manufacture would design a frame for 2013 for parts which were no longer produced, and where the current version needs different sized holes.
I understand, but is 7970 series actually obsolete? I understand that Shimano have released the 9070 which is the 11 speed. It wouldn't have hurt Orbea to simply widen the holes a little more..
I do realize what you are saying though.
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Old 06-30-13, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by arabianranches View Post
I don't know the first thing about widening holes into carbon frames, but I am imagine that is the only solution (apart from the 3000USD new 11speed Di2 option)
Would suggest not attempting to widen any holes, as you will invalidate any warranty on the frame, and kill any resale value if you want to sell it later.

You only real option seem to be to get a current DI2 setup to resolve the harness fit issues, You have a few options, this is on the basis that you have a full 7970 groupset at present.

Keep the crank & brakes of the 7970 & buy 6770 STI's and F&R derailleurs, sell surplus 7970 parts.

Sell all 7970 parts, and buy a 9070 groupset

Sell all 7970 parts, wait a few weeks, possibly months and buy a 6870 groupset, which should start to filter into retail channels soon, cheaper, but longer in time option.

Your choice...
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Old 06-30-13, 05:44 AM
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Forget about messing with the frame.

The problem you have is connectors on some wire; this is solved with a soldering iron, heatshrink, and some connectors that will fit.

How many conductors in the connectors?
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Old 06-30-13, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
Would suggest not attempting to widen any holes, as you will invalidate any warranty on the frame, and kill any resale value if you want to sell it later.

You only real option seem to be to get a current DI2 setup to resolve the harness fit issues, You have a few options, this is on the basis that you have a full 7970 groupset at present.

Keep the crank & brakes of the 7970 & buy 6770 STI's and F&R derailleurs, sell surplus 7970 parts.

Sell all 7970 parts, and buy a 9070 groupset

Sell all 7970 parts, wait a few weeks, possibly months and buy a 6870 groupset, which should start to filter into retail channels soon, cheaper, but longer in time option.

Your choice...
Thanks. I agree and don't really think drilling into the frame is a good option either. I have the full 7970 apart from the crank. I run with a SRAM Quarq set up. I could sell the 7970 and upgrade. Decisions to be made I think....
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Old 06-30-13, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Forget about messing with the frame.

The problem you have is connectors on some wire; this is solved with a soldering iron, heatshrink, and some connectors that will fit.

How many conductors in the connectors?
There are 4 wires in the cable. The only cable we have issues with is the one from the RD to the BB area. All the rest can be run with no issues. I suggested to the guys to cut the cable, feed it through and splice. Don't think it is a plausible route to take. Looks like im selling 10 speed Dura Ace Di2 then!!
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Old 06-30-13, 07:29 AM
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"I suggested to the guys to cut the cable, feed it through and splice. Don't think it is a plausible route to take."

What's so difficult about it? I cut and splice cables all the time, even putting a totally different connector on. Never was unable to make it work. This is done successfully on aircraft, a bicycle shouldn't be any problem.
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Old 06-30-13, 09:07 AM
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Old 06-30-13, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
"I suggested to the guys to cut the cable, feed it through and splice. Don't think it is a plausible route to take."

What's so difficult about it? I cut and splice cables all the time, even putting a totally different connector on. Never was unable to make it work. This is done successfully on aircraft, a bicycle shouldn't be any problem.
NO, NO, NO! Think about the additional milligrams of the splice, the ghetto-ization of the bling, the ridicule the OP would receive from his riding "buddies." Any plausible route must require spending more money . . . no matter the consequences.
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Old 06-30-13, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
NO, NO, NO! Think about the additional milligrams of the splice, the ghetto-ization of the bling, the ridicule the OP would receive from his riding "buddies." Any plausible route must require spending more money . . . no matter the consequences.
this has made me laugh! Thanks. Actually the cable itself will pass through the frame. I took a look at the actual connector and I think it can be removed from the cable, then reconnected once the cable has been pulled. Not sure though. If not, cable splicing is the way ahead.
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Old 06-30-13, 10:46 AM
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Object lesson for the many generous respondents in this forum (not me): when good advice fails, ridicule sometimes succeeds.
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Old 06-30-13, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by arabianranches View Post
I took a look at the actual connector and I think it can be removed from the cable, then reconnected once the cable has been pulled.
This would be the way to go, if possible.

Otherwise, it might be possible to have a little extra length inside the chainstay to hide the join inside...?
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Old 06-30-13, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
This would be the way to go, if possible.

Otherwise, it might be possible to have a little extra length inside the chainstay to hide the join inside...?
Thanks very much for the feedback, yes there is extra length on the cable to hide the splice inside. Im hoping to be able to remove the connector and then pull, then re-connect. it looks doable. Many thanks again
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Old 06-30-13, 11:33 PM
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Just be careful, if you think you can remove the connector from the wire and replace it, to make sure it's actually possible. A four-conductor connector that size may be problematic.

You might be better off cutting the wire and splicing it; if so be sure to stagger the splices so you don't get a big lump on the cable you can't feed back into the chainstay.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Just be careful, if you think you can remove the connector from the wire and replace it, to make sure it's actually possible. A four-conductor connector that size may be problematic.

You might be better off cutting the wire and splicing it; if so be sure to stagger the splices so you don't get a big lump on the cable you can't feed back into the chainstay.
Anyone know anything about the electrical protocol Shimano uses on these cables? If it's a simple serial protocol (e.g. RS-232), then splicing should be no problem. If it's some fancy high-speed differential signaling (like USB, Ethernet, etc. use) then this could seriously compromise signal integrity.

Also, if I were the OP, I would Google some information on weatherproofing solder joints in cables. There are special heat shrinks and conformal coatings you can get that will seal up the splice nicely, hopefully without making it too thick.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:33 AM
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Thanks Metaluna, I am pretty sure that this is a simple RS232 type protocol, nothing fancy. which is different from the newer 11 speed and Ultegra Di2 I believe. I am also looking at the heatshrinks. I want to make a good job of this as I appreciate a half arsed job will cause no end of issues down the line. I really appreciate everyones advice. Its given me some serious food for thought.
Originally Posted by Metaluna View Post
Anyone know anything about the electrical protocol Shimano uses on these cables? If it's a simple serial protocol (e.g. RS-232), then splicing should be no problem. If it's some fancy high-speed differential signaling (like USB, Ethernet, etc. use) then this could seriously compromise signal integrity.

Also, if I were the OP, I would Google some information on weatherproofing solder joints in cables. There are special heat shrinks and conformal coatings you can get that will seal up the splice nicely, hopefully without making it too thick.
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Old 07-01-13, 06:50 AM
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I have to say that you're braver than I. But then you are caught in a tricky place without a ton of good options.
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Old 07-01-13, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I have to say that you're braver than I. But then you are caught in a tricky place without a ton of good options.
If I can remove the 4 pin shimano connector from the cable then reconnect once its been pulled through the frame, then its an easy solution. I just am not sure how easy it is to remove the connector. I look closely at it and it comes in 2 distinct parts which suggests that it can be removed. As the connectors are Proprietry owned by Shimano I don't really want to damage them. Not the kind of thing I can replace easily. THat said, if the worst came to the worst, I can use different connectors. Don't get me wrong. This is riskly and I wont be doing it myself. Ill get someone who is not as useless as me to carry out the work.
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Old 07-01-13, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Metaluna View Post
If it's some fancy high-speed differential signaling (like USB, Ethernet, etc. use) then this could seriously compromise signal integrity.
Hmm. Seems to explain why extending USB lead = fail.
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Old 07-01-13, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by arabianranches View Post
If I can remove the 4 pin shimano connector from the cable then reconnect once its been pulled through the frame, then its an easy solution. I just am not sure how easy it is to remove the connector. I look closely at it and it comes in 2 distinct parts which suggests that it can be removed. As the connectors are Proprietry owned by Shimano I don't really want to damage them. Not the kind of thing I can replace easily. THat said, if the worst came to the worst, I can use different connectors. Don't get me wrong. This is riskly and I wont be doing it myself. Ill get someone who is not as useless as me to carry out the work.
Forgive my ignorance of Di2, but are these cables permanently attached to anything expensive (like shift levers or RD/FD)? Or are they just standalone cables? (Not that the prices I've seen on Di2 cable kits are particularly cheap) Because the normal way you remove a connector is to just cut it off. Then you would use an ohmmeter or continuity tester to determine which wire in the cable connects to which pin on the connector, and repeat for the other cable.

If they are permanently attached to a major component, I would not recommend any mods to the cables at all. You'd be better off selling the old stuff and replacing it.

Does anyone make aftermarket Di2 cables yet, or is it all patented and proprietary? Maybe somebody makes an adapter for this kind of situation.
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Old 07-01-13, 09:51 AM
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Whatever the case, someone with mad skillz should totally be able to sort this.

Someone with a dremel and a CRO.
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