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2x spoke pattern? Can't find long spokes

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2x spoke pattern? Can't find long spokes

Old 07-06-13, 06:53 PM
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2x spoke pattern? Can't find long spokes

Is there an issue lacing a rear wheel at 2x? I have a 27" rim and can't find the 306 and 308 mm spokes for a reasonable price. For that matter, is there anyplace I can get cheap straight pull SS spokes? I was originally going to get these for just over $20, but that person desn't seem to sell anymore. Now the best bet seems to go with retrogression for $29.
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Old 07-06-13, 07:14 PM
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The links you listed aren't straight pull spokes.

Here's DT Swiss 14/15 DB "conventional" spokes
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/item/DTXCZWA2
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Old 07-06-13, 07:40 PM
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Sorry, I don't know what I was saying, I meant to say straight gauge (those aren't that either, but they are the cheapest thing I can find, since I can only find straight gauge in 50 spoke one size sets)
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Old 07-06-13, 07:45 PM
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Also, $10 shipping, dude. That ramps it up to $40. Is 2x going to be a problem?
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Old 07-06-13, 07:48 PM
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I have 2mm straight pull 310mm blanks. I can cut to whatever you want. If interested PM me what you're expecting to pay.
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Old 07-06-13, 08:24 PM
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Just to be clear, I misspoke, and need regular j-shaped spokes. I meant to say straight gauge, because they tend to be the cheapest (it is just a beater bike, rim is fine but needs rebuilt on new spokes). That ebay guy always sold 40 custom cut for $22, but as of maybe less then a month ago isn't active. If I go 2x, I need 300 and 302. 3x needs 308mm and 306mm.

If you do have traditional bend spokes that you can cut. Well, I need 36 and my best deal so far is $30 with shipping. If you can top that I'll probably take you up on it.
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Old 07-06-13, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhii View Post
Also, $10 shipping, dude. That ramps it up to $40. Is 2x going to be a problem?
You're probably going to have a difficult time keeping a 2x 27" rim straight. If the rim is stiff, 2x can make a stiff but somewhat unstable wheel if the rim is stiff. If the rim is soft, like most 27" rims I've known, it's just unstable. The cheapest Fuji Newest used to come with 2x rear wheels that were always in need of truing. I don't recommend it.

I don't know the exact length you need. Have you tried these guys? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Qual...item43b8d90d09
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Old 07-06-13, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
You're probably going to have a difficult time keeping a 2x 27" rim straight. If the rim is stiff, 2x can make a stiff but somewhat unstable wheel if the rim is stiff. If the rim is soft, like most 27" rims I've known, it's just unstable. The cheapest Fuji Newest used to come with 2x rear wheels that were always in need of truing. I don't recommend it.

I don't know the exact length you need. Have you tried these guys? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Qual...item43b8d90d09
Been building wheels for almost 50 years. In that time I've never found a correlation between cross pattern and ability to stay true. If anything, reduced crosses would tend to hold true better owing to a wider bracing angle. But the difference is miniscule.
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Old 07-06-13, 08:51 PM
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If my direction of though is correct, the only thing crossing will change is what degree of tangent the spokes leave the hub, and that will affect to things: the more tangent the more hub material is between the spoke and what direction is is being pulled; and the the spokes already be alligned most torward the torque of the hub. I think the former should be fine because it is a good condition 105 hub, and the latter shouldn't be affected as long as everything is tensioned correctly.
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Old 07-06-13, 09:51 PM
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http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/21040/

Use 14's for the DS & 15's for the NDS.
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Old 07-06-13, 09:52 PM
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Given the amount of torque a bike hub ever sees, the tiniest amount of spoke tangentiality will suffice. The jokers riding low-riders get away with none.

Also, the fact that a wheel built with DB spokes isn't just lighter and more aero, but also more durable, makes them compulsory IMO. Pay the extra.
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Old 07-06-13, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhii View Post


If you do have traditional bend spokes that you can cut. Well, I need 36 and my best deal so far is $30 with shipping. If you can top that I'll probably take you up on it.
No problem (assuming you're in the USA). Give me exactly what you want via email using the link on the Chain-L site and I'll return an exact quote.
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Old 07-06-13, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhii View Post
Is there an issue lacing a rear wheel at 2x? I have a 27" rim and can't find the 306 and 308 mm spokes for a reasonable price. For that matter, is there anyplace I can get cheap straight pull SS spokes? I was originally going to get these for just over $20, but that person desn't seem to sell anymore. Now the best bet seems to go with retrogression for $29.
Not sure what you call "reasonable," but sometimes it's a lot more work trying to save a penny. Just buy some spokes and fix the wheel. Quit being a TA! Here's some-

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...2&category=197
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Old 07-07-13, 01:11 AM
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For the front wheel - no problem. I ride 23 mm tyres on road bike with such spoke pattern. It has 36 spokes though. Got the wheel 2nd hand and as soon as it gets out of true, I'm planning on ordering new spokes and relacing it. However, this is the 2nd season without any problems.
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Old 07-07-13, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Got the wheel 2nd hand and as soon as it gets out of true, I'm planning on ordering new spokes and relacing it.
Why, are they plain 14g?
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Old 07-07-13, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Why, are they plain 14g?
They are of poor quality and not long enough to lace it other way.
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Old 07-07-13, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhii View Post
Is there an issue lacing a rear wheel at 2x? I have a 27" rim and can't find the 306 and 308 mm spokes for a reasonable price. For that matter, is there anyplace I can get cheap straight pull SS spokes? I was originally going to get these for just over $20, but that person desn't seem to sell anymore. Now the best bet seems to go with retrogression for $29.
306mm / 308mm for 2X on a 27" wheel? Me thinks you are counting the crossings wrong and it's really 3X.

=8-)

If you are on the west coast...

http://www.mrrabbit.net

Did you actually measure the old spokes assuming you are tearing down a wheel for a rebuild?

=8-)
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Old 07-07-13, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
306mm / 308mm for 2X on a 27" wheel? Me thinks you are counting the crossings wrong and it's really 3X.

=8-)

If you are on the west coast...

http://www.mrrabbit.net

Did you actually measure the old spokes assuming you are tearing down a wheel for a rebuild?

=8-)
Good point! He may be thinking his ERD is 630?

OP-
WHAT rim & hub are you using?
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Old 07-07-13, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
306mm / 308mm for 2X on a 27" wheel? Me thinks you are counting the crossings wrong and it's really 3X.

=8-)

If you are on the west coast...

http://www.mrrabbit.net

Did you actually measure the old spokes assuming you are tearing down a wheel for a rebuild?

=8-)
I agree, that this seems pretty long for a 2x wheel, though it may be possible with a small flange hub and single wall rim. The OP should check all his measurements anew before having spokes cut.

BTW- on a small flange 32h hub the length difference between 2x and 3x isn't great, so he shouldn't feel that there's any benefit in terms of availability in 2x vs. 3x. The spokes exist either way, so he should choose the build he wants then source the spokes, and not the other way around.
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Old 07-08-13, 02:18 AM
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For 2x I need 300 and 302, based on the average between wheelcalc and the wheelpro site. For 3x I need 306 and 308. Although , as far as wiggle room going down 1mm one each should work fine too. The ERD is 635 with it being in the spoke head. The spokes were old and needed replacing, all UCP stuff, started popping, but examing the rim it is still fine. I picked up a better condition hub from my local co-op, a 1996 105 for $10. flange dia is 45mm. Rims are prety basic AL stuff, with a single wall in the center, and two bubbles on the side, if that makes sense.
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Old 07-08-13, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhii View Post
For 2x I need 300 and 302, based on the average between wheelcalc and the wheelpro site. For 3x I need 306 and 308. Although , as far as wiggle room going down 1mm one each should work fine too. The ERD is 635 with it being in the spoke head. The spokes were old and needed replacing, all UCP stuff, started popping, but examing the rim it is still fine. I picked up a better condition hub from my local co-op, a 1996 105 for $10. flange dia is 45mm. Rims are prety basic AL stuff, with a single wall in the center, and two bubbles on the side, if that makes sense.
You ERD != 635

Trust me...

It's a lot closer to 614-624mm (Most likely 618-620 when aiming for the screwdriver flat of a 12mm standard profile nipple.)

You really should head to an LBS that regularly does custom wheel builds and let them do the measurement and calculations for you.

=8-)
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Old 07-08-13, 05:01 PM
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No, I absolutely guarantee you the ERD is NOT 635. The beat seat on a 27" tire is only 630mm, and there is no way the ERD is greater than that. Seriously get your measurements right unless you want to buy spokes more than once.
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Old 07-08-13, 08:59 PM
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I apologize for the confusion. I made a elementary error in measuring. I forgot that I put my ruler/meter stick over 1cm when measuring so that both sides were resting on the rim. It is 625, but the distances remain close to the same, only now it is between 3x and 4x. 3x is 300 and 302, 4x is 310 and 308. This makes sense because the old hub has the same flange diameter, but slightly different center to flange distances, and are 309mm and 307mm
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Old 07-08-13, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhii View Post
I apologize for the confusion. I made a elementary error in measuring. I forgot that I put my ruler/meter stick over 1cm when measuring so that both sides were resting on the rim. It is 625, but the distances remain close to the same, only now it is between 3x and 4x. 3x is 300 and 302, 4x is 310 and 308. This makes sense because the old hub has the same flange diameter, but slightly different center to flange distances, and are 309mm and 307mm
Just to be sure, this is 36h (or more), right.

If it's a 32h build, 4x is off the table.
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Old 07-08-13, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhii View Post
I apologize for the confusion. I made a elementary error in measuring. I forgot that I put my ruler/meter stick over 1cm when measuring so that both sides were resting on the rim. It is 625, but the distances remain close to the same, only now it is between 3x and 4x. 3x is 300 and 302, 4x is 310 and 308. This makes sense because the old hub has the same flange diameter, but slightly different center to flange distances, and are 309mm and 307mm
The center-to-flange distance is changing your spoke length by 7mm? I seriously doubt it.

Measure the rim again, to the nearest millimeter. 625 is at least a theoretically possible ERD but still seems pretty high.
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