scholl43

I have a 2011 Jamis Coda Sport that I would like to build a new rear while for. I'm 175 lbs. and will add two Ortlieb panniers to a rack, plus a potential Chrome pack on my back. I want a wheel that can take at least 250 lbs between all of that. Unfortunately, clearance will only allow about a 700 X 32 tire (I was looking at Schwalbe Marathons).

So, I'm thinking of building the following:
Rim: Mavic A719 - LBS Quote =$90 Online = $60
Hub: Shimano 105 5700 - $64
Cassette: Shimano Tiagra 9 speed 11-32 - $25
Spokes: DT Swiss Alpine III (Box) - $100?

Besides a little Velox cloth, I don't think I'm missing anything in terms of cost. I'm planning on following along with Sheldon Brown's guide to get through threading and then tighten things down with the help of someone at a local bike workshop with a proper truing stand.

My biggest question right now is about spoke length and where to buy them from. I used the DT Swiss Spoke Calculator and first wanted to see if people could tell me if these numbers are correct:


Since the spokes will be two different lengths, does it make the most sense to buy the longer ones and cut them down for the shorter side? Should I see if a LBS can just order 20 (two have a few extra) of each for me instead of getting a full box? Anyone know good place to find these at the right lengths?

By the way, the specs on the Shimano 105 Hub were hard to come by. I found this source from another thread here.

Bill Kapaun

According to Spocalc, with that hub, your DS tension is only 49% of DS. That's not good!!
I'd look for an offset (4mm) rim from velocity, such as the Synergy OC or A23 OC. That will change it to 69%
https://www.velocityusa.com/product/r...cations/tandem

IF I were building it, I'd use 14G spokes on the DS and 14/15G DB spokes on the NDS with the OC rim.
In fact, that's what I did with my grocery getter 559mm rim.

You can buy spokes by the piece here-
https://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/21040/

Alpine spokes are hard to get if you don't want BLACK.
I think cambriacycle sells them, but I had problems with them not being able to obtain spokes that were either "in stock" or "a few days".

You might also want to download a copy of spocalc or Mr. Rabbits spokechart to look at hub dimensions.
You should be able to find something with less offset between the flanges to reduce the tension difference.

FBinNY 

I'm a big fan of different gauge spoke right and left to compensate for the difference in tension. Offset rims also help, though some report issues of quality on many (try to find reviews of specific rims).

I tend to use lighter spokes than most and have excellent success doing so. Follow Bill's advice (above), or consider building 2/1.8/2 for the right, and 2/1.6/2 on the left, so something similar. If you can find 2.3/1.8/2 for the right use that.

I didn't check the rim (I hate to give specific brand/model advice about anything), but consider what cross section tires you plan on using (wider is better at those loads) and buy rims designed for tires that wide.

Good luck with the build.

BTW- the biggest issue using spoke calculators relates to rim ERD. If you don't measure your own, check the results using various databases or spoke calculators. I know that MrRabbit here on the form is very diligent about keeping his data up to date and accurate, but even he has issues because rim specs sometimes have unannounced changes.

scholl43

This phrase confused me. The drive side tension is only 49% of the drive side?

FBinNY, the DT Alpine III's are triple butted so you think I should search for a double butted spoke for the left? I chose the Mavic A719's since so many people on this forum and elsewhere like them for their durability. I'm not attached to the Shimano 105 hub so I'd rather swap that out than the rims as Bill suggests.

mrrabbit 

Mavic A719 SSD = 600

Normally when adjusting for ERD it's 602-603.

That assumes the SSD / ERD for the rim hasn't "migrated" over time like with the Open Pro...

292 / 290 seems okay assuming 12mm standard profile nipples.

However, it would be really nice if you could put a 135mm OLD Shimano hub in there to reduce the asymmetrical offsets somewhat...

Can your frame accommodate 135mm rear spaced hubs? If not, are you open to using OCR rims?

=8-)

HillRider

Here is the voice of economic common sense. You can buy a complete suitable wheel already built for significantly less than buying the components and building it yourself. Give it some thought.

Retro Grouch 

That was my first thought. If it was my bike I'd measure the distance between the rear dropouts just to be sure. If it happens to be 132.5 or 135 mm, I'd start with an LX or an XT rear hub.

sreten

Hi,

Surely you can buy a basic complete strong tough
wheel as least as good for much less and tweak it ?

rgds, sreten.

scholl43

I'm not sure if the frame can accommodate 350mm hubs. I'm open to suggestions on other completed wheels or wheelsets. I want the rear wheel to be able to take the weight and a larger tire since the stock tires only go up to 28's and I'm not forcing anything bigger on them. I was thinking of only swapping out the back wheel because the front one likely can't accommodate a bigger tire because of the limited spacing.

davidad

There is no real need for triple butted spokes. You would be better served building with 36 double butted spokes for that load. I have built a couple for round friends with Mavic 319's and have had good luck and saved money. You could also go with a Tiagra hub with 130 spacing.

FBinNY 

Read the 49% post as NDS is only 49% of DS.
I haven't run the numbers, but the general rule for tension differential is that it's proportional to the ratio of CTF distance between the flanges (reversed). To be more precise, you have to adjust for the spoke hole ziigzag offset in the rim, or for an offset rim.

When considering differential spoke gauges to compensate for tension differences, it's the majority length that counts, so it's the center gauge value on butted spokes. If you have triple butted spokes, such as 2.3/1.8/2.0 they'd be fine for the right, paired with something like 2.0/1.6/2.0 for the left. Those are just by way of example so use a combination that meets your needs.

HillRider

Will the frame clear a larger tire?

scholl43

Not too much larger, but I want a wider/knobbier tire as well.

Bill Kapaun

OOPs Make that NDS is only 49% of DS.

sreten

double post

sreten

Hi,

I don't know how you work that out. My bike came with 28mm's
and I've got 30mm on the back and 32mm on the front, I could
probably go to 32mm rear (pretty close) and 35mm front (easy).

A new wheel won't change that without changing the rim size.

At 175 lbs your looking at at ~ 100 lbs rear and ~ 75 lbs front.

No way do you need 250 lbs for the rear.

Just fit the biggest tyre you can to your current rear wheel.

Other versions of your bike have 32mm and probably will take 35mm.

rgds, sreten.

scholl43

Hi sreten,

I was reading elsewhere on this forum about how exceeding the recommended tire size for a rim can be dangerous. I thought I read somewhere that the upper end of this Alex rims was 28 or maybe even 30, but I don't remember where I saw that. I could be wrong of course.

In terms of weight, I'm looking at this:
Me: 175lbs
Rear Panniers: 20 lbs (10 ea.)
Rear Rack: 15 lbs
Chrome pack: 20 lbs

So that's 230 lbs without factoring in the weight of the bike at 30lbs or so. Do people really recommend that these Alex rims can take that kind of weight (even if not on a daily basis) and are rated for wider tires?

Bill Kapaun

Rims come in different widths and thus accommodate various ranges of tire widths.
Your rim is listed as an Alex ID-19.
I can't find that rim, but the 19 pretty much infers you can run as large of tires that will fit in your frame. 32 may be pushing that issue. How much clearance do you have with the 28's? A friend went from a 32 to a 35 and ended up having to deflate the rear to get it in/out of the bike. The wheel won't go forward enough to clear the dropouts when inflated.

dabac

Not really.
The peak of the performance curve for tire vs rim width is a very gentle bump, not a sharp peak.
If you go really far off, like was/is common on MTBs, you can sometimes get accelerated wear of the tire sidewall - which I guess could be termed dangerous if the rider was to ignore it.

Sheldon Brown has an article on tire vs rim width, look it up.

Bezalel

On Alex Rims the model number is not an indication of the rim's width. Most Alex rims have the ETRTO size on the label but the ID-19 looks like an OEM rim for Jamis so it might not be there.

scholl43

The label on the rim says it's 622 X 16.

I looked up the Sheldon Brown's article as @dabac suggested. If I understand the chart correctly, 32's will be fine on these rims, but I think my question still remains, do people think that the 32H Alex ID-19 rims with Shimano 2200 hubs and 14g spokes are strong enough for the weight loads I described above?

Bezalel

If the rims are double walled it'll be ok. Just have the wheel tensioned by a good wheelbuilder.

You can go sightly wider than Sheldon's chart. How big of a tire do you want?

scholl43

It has the stock tires on it, which look like they've seen some good use. I would typically swap them out for Gatorskins, but I want this bike to be able to have better traction and hold up well in the rain or light snow so I'm not sure what tires would fit. I'm guessing I'd generally want something a bit knobbier like a cyclocross tire. Any thoughts?

sreten

Hi,

So that is 115 lbs per wheel at the simplest level and clearly not true.
You need a front to back correction for static loading.

There are fat tyre ranges clearly developed for skinny rims, and basic
fat tyres clearly not developed for skinny rims, for fatter tyres rim size
is only an issue for those that cluelessly pump up tyres to max pressure.

rgds, sreten.

sreten

Hi,

Rain and light snow on tarmac the best tyres are slicks.

rgds, sreten.