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Is this rim past it ?

Old 07-18-13, 01:11 PM
  #1  
aidanpringle
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Is this rim past it ?

Went over a pretty big pothole today, burst my front tyre and bent my rear wheel. I noticed a crack (0.2mm) in the seem, is this worth getting trued or is the rim non-usable ? Thanks.

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Old 07-18-13, 01:30 PM
  #2  
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As far as the seam goes, the rim could be straightened. But from the pictures it appears that there are deep grooves cut into the braking surface. And since the rim suffered a fairly large impact I would guess that a larger part of the rim may be "flattened".

I suspect that the rim needs to be replaced but can't really tell without seeing it. Spin the wheel slowly on the bike close to a fixed object and see if the wheel is still round.

If the grooves are as bad as they look I would definitely replace it.

I also suspect that you need softer new brake pads. I like KoolStop salmon colored pads.
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Old 07-18-13, 01:31 PM
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To me, even if you can straighten it, it looks like it'll want to "shave" brake pads.
May also be a "grabby" spot when applying brakes, tending to promote a flat spot on the tire from skids.
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Old 07-18-13, 02:11 PM
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I have had a go at fixing it, I should add that I only need these to work for about 3-4 weeks as I am buying a new pair for my birthday
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Old 07-18-13, 02:17 PM
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Hi,

It is not a crack that will spread, it is a butted seam that has been bent by the impact.

That part of the wheel was clearly never part of the way the rims are joined and
it is impossible to say the effect of the impact on the joint proper, from those pics.

Personally I'd bash it back into shape as best as I could, use some metal filler
and file that general area back into shape. It either will be fine as the joint
proper is still fine, or won't won't work as the joint proper is damaged.

They look like quality rims with plenty of wear left in them. My best guess is the
joint proper has survived and you are looking at effectively cosmetic damage.

Of course the safest option is to replace, but I wouldn't unless I thought
the proper joint of the rim has been dangerously comprised in some way.

I can't see any catastrophic failure mode, I'd carry on using it.

rgds, sreten.

Last edited by sreten; 07-18-13 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 07-18-13, 02:24 PM
  #6  
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I wouldn't worry about the seam coming apart in a finished wheel, spoke tension pulls it together. Can't see any particular grooves apart from the wear indicator. But it does look like one side of the seam has been shifted quite a bit inwards, which makes me wonder how round the rim is. Deformities close to the seam - particularly what looks like a pinned seam - are difficult to correct, as the seam tends to gape when you try to apply the straightening force.
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Old 07-18-13, 02:59 PM
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the groove in the middle of the braking surface is not a worry, it's by design (so you can tell when enough aluminum is worn away that you should replace the rim).
as others have said, the crack will not spread - it is the rim seam, and spoke tension will keep it pulled together.

The only question is, can you true it enough to ride it comfortably, and does it dangerously grab the brakes? (even if it doesn't, it might cause your brake pads to wear down quickly).

If you're any good at wheelbuilding, you can get a rim of the same or very close ERD, and lace it up without much work (move spokes over one by one while keeping current spoke lacing pattern). Then it's just truing/tensioning.
If not, wait until you have money and pay a shop to replace the rim, or just replace the wheel.
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Old 07-18-13, 03:07 PM
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I don't see anything really wrong with the rims myself. They look fine to ride on especially after you cleaned them up. They don't look like they have much wear on them and that seam is normal.
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Old 07-18-13, 04:15 PM
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The amount of repair you attempt will always be limited by the bent joint pins that now reside inside the joint.

=8-)
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Old 07-18-13, 04:20 PM
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First attempt at truing went surprisingly well, got them to about the same as before, albeit a slight wobble. The brakes don't grab and operate fine, Thanks for all the input, Now off to write a strongly worded letter to the Local Council.
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Old 07-18-13, 04:28 PM
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This is more about economics than repairability. If you're out on a tour, certainly it's worth fixing so you can continue, and it can be done if you have decent skills.

However if you're at home, it's only worth fixing if you do your own work, and want to salvage a "B" wheel. If you have to pay someone $30 or more, then it's probably not worth saving.

If you do chose to save it, you'll want to use some filler, such as JB Weld to help the brake shoes past the open seam at the joint. If the rim sees hard braking the temperature changes may make your filler come out on a regular basis. The other alternative is to file shallow "ramps" at the open seam so the brake shoe can ski over it without catching an edge.

Overall, it will be decently stable because the tire itself acts as a splint across the gap. I've seen far worse last thousands of miles, but still wouldn' take it on a multi-day tour because of Murphy's Law.
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Old 07-18-13, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
This is more about economics than repairability. If you're out on a tour, certainly it's worth fixing so you can continue, and it can be done if you have decent skills.

However if you're at home, it's only worth fixing if you do your own work, and want to salvage a "B" wheel. If you have to pay someone $30 or more, then it's probably not worth saving.

If you do chose to save it, you'll want to use some filler, such as JB Weld to help the brake shoes past the open seam at the joint. If the rim sees hard braking the temperature changes may make your filler come out on a regular basis. The other alternative is to file shallow "ramps" at the open seam so the brake shoe can ski over it without catching an edge.

Overall, it will be decently stable because the tire itself acts as a splint across the gap. I've seen far worse last thousands of miles, but still wouldn' take it on a multi-day tour because of Murphy's Law.
I know this is silly but could heat play a part in the size of the rim, It's is unusually hot in Scotland currently and I wonder if because the inside circumference of the rim is shorter then the edge circumference, as it (inner) has expanded it has forced the gap to wider than it would usually be. Basically, as the inner part of the rim expand so does the outer, but not to the same extent, therefore making the gap larger than usual, Am I over-thinking this? I am over-thinking this.

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Old 07-18-13, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by aidanpringle View Post
I know this is silly but could heat play a part in the size of the rim, .
Well you know it's silly, so I won't rub it in. Heat isn't a factor for a number of reasons. First of all the 40°C swing in ambient temps is small compared to the total swings that rims routinely see from brake heat. Also the rim expands as a ring, with the inner and outer edges each expanding/contraction in proportion to their lengths so there's no relative change. The rim does get longer, so the diameter increases (or the spoke tension rises or both) with an increase in temps, but not toa degree that anybody would ever notice functionally.

I suspect that the reason the rim joint opened the way it did, is that the impact was just off to the side of ir. Buckling that pare downward, and pulling the rim towards the point of impact. (based on the photo).

You won't have the ability to correct this local distortion via normal alignment methods, but a bit of work with a file, and maybe a spot of filler will make it OK. If you're really good at aligning, and have good file skills, this wheel can be made to ride and brake as good as new, but even they it's not something you'd want to start a long tout with.

BTW- since this is a front wheel, normal stresses are fairly low which is good, but you want to be extra diligent about making sure it has smooth even braking action, so there's no surprise grabbing in an emergency stop.
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Old 07-18-13, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
BTW- since this is a front wheel, normal stresses are fairly low which is good, but you want to be extra diligent about making sure it has smooth even braking action, so there's no surprise grabbing in an emergency stop.
It is a rear wheel.
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Old 07-18-13, 05:11 PM
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One of the brake wear indicators looks like the anodization has been worn off. How deep is the remaining groove? It might be time to replace the rim.
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Old 07-18-13, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by aidanpringle View Post
It is a rear wheel.
So it is. That makes smooth braking slightly less critical, but not much difference otherwise, except that rear wheels rarely last as long as fronts, so you might be replacing this sooner anyway.

Meanwhile, that was some pothole, costing you a front tire and rear rim (almost).
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Old 07-18-13, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
So it is. That makes smooth braking slightly less critical, but not much difference otherwise, except that rear wheels rarely last as long as fronts, so you might be replacing this sooner anyway.

Meanwhile, that was some pothole, costing you a front tire and rear rim (almost).
About 4 inches deep then a right angled ridge up to road level, Knocked my saddle bag off, which is secured with 3 velcro straps
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Old 07-18-13, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by aidanpringle View Post
About 4 inches deep then a right angled ridge up to road level, Knocked my saddle bag off, which is secured with 3 velcro straps
Ouch!
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Old 07-18-13, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Ouch!
Yup, Damn lucky I was able to stay upright. Just after hitting it an articulated truck went by at 60mph about 1 metre from me. These roads are (supposedly) maintained by a council that actively promotes cycling.
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Old 07-18-13, 05:41 PM
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Hi,

The impact has bent the butt seam at the joint, IMO it can
be bashed back closer together. Filler may work or it may
continually work its self loose, wheels are flexible things.

To me it looks like the impact was very near the joint, and big.

The burst tyre front wheel probably took a bigger clobbering than
the rear wheel, but survived because it hit away from the joint.

Personally I clean up the edges and use relatively flexible
epoxy, just to stop the gap filing up with brake crud.

The only further observation I'd make is stick with wired
tyres (not folding) for the wheel and it should be fine.

Only a (o)ver(l)y careful person would retire it, IMO.

rgds, sreten.

Last edited by sreten; 07-18-13 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 07-18-13, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

The impact has bent the butt seam at the joint, IMO it can
be bashed back closer together. Filler may work or it may
continually work its self loose, wheels are flexible things.

To me it looks like the impact was very near the joint, and big.

The burst tyre front wheel probably took a bigger clobbering than
the rear wheel, but survived because it hit away from the joint.

Personally I clean up the edges and use relatively flexible
epoxy, just to stop the gap filing up with brake crud.

The only further observation I'd make is stick with wired
tyres (not folding) for the wheel and it should be fine.

Only a (o)ver(l)y careful person would retire it, IMO.

rgds, sreten.
I think the explosion of the innertube acted as a cushion for the front wheel, which is still completely true, also most of my weight would have been on the rear wheel.
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Old 07-18-13, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by aidanpringle View Post
I think the explosion of the innertube acted as a cushion for the front wheel, which is still completely true, also most of my weight would have been on the rear wheel.
The reality is that it's harder to dent front wheels because they have lighter axle loads, so tend to lift easier on impacts. If you react in time, you can save the rear wheel by simply standing and using your flexed knees as a suspension so the wheel can rise without lifting your weight.

The object is to take your body from the "unsprung weight" side ot the ledger to the "sprung weight" side. That changes everything, and explains why a 240# linebacker can be gentler on his wheels than a 110# ballerina.
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Old 07-18-13, 06:55 PM
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Hi,

I tend to think say a big kerb as you hit it is harder on the front wheel
than the rear because the deceleration swings the loading to the front,
which is bad for the front and good for the rear relatively.

Why my front tyre is bigger than the rear on my road bike.

rgds, sreten.

Of course off the saddle is de rigueur for bumps you
can see coming, the worst are the ones you don't.

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Old 07-18-13, 07:12 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

I tend to think say a big kerb as you hit it is harder on the front wheel
than the rear because the deceleration swings the loading to the front,
which is bad for the front and good for the rear relatively.

Why my front tyre is bigger than the rear on my road bike.

rgds, sreten.

Of course off the saddle is de rigueur for bumps you
can see coming, the worst are the ones you don't.
I hit is at 35 kmph so I assume the momentum carried through,
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Old 07-19-13, 11:03 AM
  #25  
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Nor sure where you live Aidan, but in Argyll and Bute the council have a web site for reporting road faults.
My local roads had some mighty flaws which I reported and they responded fairly quickly, now instead of pot holes we have gravel.
Any way, why not just have an early birthday and re rim earlier than planned?

Cheers
GE
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