Are 9 speed systems becoming obsolete?
07-23-13, 05:49 PM
#52
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Personally I'm not out to convince anyone. I figured out a long time ago that most people start with an opinion based on personal bias and simply look for 'facts' that'll justify their position.
But if long term durability is really an issue for you, there are a number of customers than come in the shop with bikes that date back to the 50's and 60's. They weigh a ton and most parts are discontinued but they're in near mint condition and will obviously last forever so of you wanna swap - maybe we can work out a trade for what you have now.
But if long term durability is really an issue for you, there are a number of customers than come in the shop with bikes that date back to the 50's and 60's. They weigh a ton and most parts are discontinued but they're in near mint condition and will obviously last forever so of you wanna swap - maybe we can work out a trade for what you have now.
07-23-13, 06:28 PM
#53
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GBM, Yeah there's a lot more lever movement involved than on the mountain bike's shifters when shifting to a larger cog or chain ring, but still it wasn't an issue for me.
Shimano may work the mountain groups similar to their road groups with out of date items. Two examples are the bar end shifters I use, one is Ultegra (8S) and the other Dura Ace (9S). They're shipped in boxes bearing the group name, but their part numbers are outside of the normal series number range. There is always hope.
Brad
Shimano may work the mountain groups similar to their road groups with out of date items. Two examples are the bar end shifters I use, one is Ultegra (8S) and the other Dura Ace (9S). They're shipped in boxes bearing the group name, but their part numbers are outside of the normal series number range. There is always hope.
Brad
07-23-13, 07:44 PM
#54
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Until the 1980s, most derailleur chains were also bushing chains, but today, virtually all derailleur chains are of the "Sedis" bushingless design. Compared to a bushing chain, a bushingless chain is cheaper to make, is less likely to break under shifting load, promotes better lubricant flow inside the rollers, and creates more lateral flexibility for multi-geared bicycles. However, it also wears much faster and has slightly worse mechanical efficiency than a bushing chain.
07-23-13, 08:02 PM
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
07-23-13, 08:39 PM
#56
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I like the part "-COMPATIBLE WITH ALL GROUPS (CA-SH)". Cash IS compatible with groups, tires and etc.
07-23-13, 09:00 PM
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9-speed isn't becoming extinct, it's just moving down-market, like 8-speed did five years ago. I've been replacing 8-speed Deore shifters with Alivio for years, and nobody has complained yet.
And now it's time for 9-speed to get the Alivio treatment.
And now it's time for 9-speed to get the Alivio treatment.
07-23-13, 10:32 PM
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I can attest to this, since I have an 8-speed chainring, with three in the front, which gives me twenty-four gears. But I don't go higher than 22 in the gears. Because triangulating the chain for an extended period of time, stretches the chain links, and bends the teeth on the chainrings. A chain is easier to replace, than a multi-speed chairring.
Last edited by rebel1916; 07-24-13 at 06:12 AM.
07-23-13, 11:51 PM
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07-24-13, 12:01 AM
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yeah, I'm joking about compatibility of "8-speed era" parts (D/A 7400). I once knew someone who worried that he had 6600 front brake and 6700 rear brake.
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"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
07-24-13, 01:16 AM
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Unless the pics are just real good renderings...
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
07-24-13, 06:20 PM
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That is either a silly or a disingenuous argument. Because the system isn't designed to be cross chained, doesn't mean it is more gears than you need or can use. It means that 2 of the possible gears, somewhere in the middle of the range, should be used sparingly, if at all. I am really having a hard time believing that you made that argument with intellectual honesty.
Last edited by Burton; 07-24-13 at 06:26 PM.
07-24-13, 06:43 PM
#64
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So its entirely possible TISO designed a 12speed system for road bikes that only works on mountain bike frames.
07-24-13, 06:56 PM
#66
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If I recall Shimano said that 12-speed wasn't really possible without moving to the wider fork spreads currently used by mountain bikes. And widening further beyond that would be extremely challenging due the the driveline torque.
So its entirely possible TISO designed a 12speed system for road bikes that only works on mountain bike frames.
So its entirely possible TISO designed a 12speed system for road bikes that only works on mountain bike frames.
Brad
07-24-13, 07:13 PM
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07-25-13, 08:27 AM
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I was happy to take advantage of it; that rear wheel, laced around a 7s 36h 600 hub, was indestructible.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
07-25-13, 10:06 AM
#70
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Kimmo, That's neat. Was the drop out spacing spec'd for that frame?
Brad
Brad
07-25-13, 11:29 AM
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"Until the 1980s, most derailleur chains were also bushing chains, but today, virtually all derailleur chains are of the "Sedis" bushingless design. Compared to a bushing chain, a bushingless chain is cheaper to make, is less likely to break under shifting load, promotes better lubricant flow inside the rollers, and creates more lateral flexibility for multi-geared bicycles. However, it also wears much faster and has slightly worse mechanical efficiency than a bushing chain."
So does that mean you don't really wanna swap your narrow 8 speed 7.1mm bushingless chain in for a wider 7.8mm 5 speed bushing type chain?
So does that mean you don't really wanna swap your narrow 8 speed 7.1mm bushingless chain in for a wider 7.8mm 5 speed bushing type chain?
Last edited by Medic Zero; 07-25-13 at 11:33 AM.
07-25-13, 11:50 AM
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NFI if it was intentional or not... It was a pretty flexy frame (only 900g), so maybe they thought what the hell, and made it 135 for the sake of those of us who'd notice 
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
07-25-13, 08:23 PM
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Certainly not me! I believe you stated you were perfectly happy with 8-speeds - which by no means can be considered vintage but have always been a bushingless 'Sedis' style of chain. Maybe you should re-read what I posted. Your 8-speed was considered 'new-fangled' when first introduced and criticized for reduced life expectancy too. The more things change the more they stay the same.
07-25-13, 08:47 PM
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If I recall Shimano said that 12-speed wasn't really possible without moving to the wider fork spreads currently used by mountain bikes. And widening further beyond that would be extremely challenging due the the driveline torque.
So its entirely possible TISO designed a 12speed system for road bikes that only works on mountain bike frames.
So its entirely possible TISO designed a 12speed system for road bikes that only works on mountain bike frames.
