Endlessly dirty chain
 

I kept wiping my chain down with a rag then relubing, maybe once a week. But every time I relube, I wipe off the excess and very quickly (almost immediate) the chain is covered again with liquid grey grime. Attempting to kurb this problem, I soaked the chain in all-purpose cleaner, put it back on, relubed, and it was covered in grime straight away!

I'm about to soak it in park tools citrus degreaser then try again.

One issue I think may be causing it is; the jockey wheels on the rear D are shredded around the teeth, with the surface layer being totally worn away and sort of ruffled or roughed up in the circumference below the teeth. Could this be covering it in grime (with the lubes help)?

For informational purposes; the lube I've been using is Finish Line ceramic.

I would suggest you first measure the chain. There is no sense in putting a lot of work into cleaning if it's ready for replacement. Grey color often indicates water contamination, so if the chain is not worn I think the citrus degreaser (expensive if you don't already have sufficient on hand). In any case you have to clean it thoroughly to avoid it getting dirty again.

First of all, are you properly rinsing and drying the chain after you wash it? If you lube a chain that hasn't been dried competely, inside and out, your newly applied lube will sit outside rather than penetrate to where it needs to be. Also, the cleaner is thin so the motion of the chain will force it out.

This is the history of drivetrains. Either you clean all routinely or you transfer from dirty to clean rapidly. Additionally what's a cleaning to one is not to the item being cleaned. As a shop wrench i have cleaned more drivetrains then most here at Bike Forums. I will say even with industrial solvent tanks (safetykleen most often) and air hoses there is almost always a bit of grime that is never removed. Or at least within the time frame allowed for paid work as well as my home/own bike stuff. I can't count the number of chains I've cleaned, air blasted dry and re cleaned only to have when I've whack them against a bike box still wet (from the second cleaning) to see more grime driven out.

So my choice is to clean often and keep the build up minimal.

BTW I cringe when i listen to the sales guys who say lubing then wiping it off is good maintenance. Seems to me that only gets the grime to float about the chain and then get pushed into it. Sure some comes off on the rag but more gets driven inside the links. Further any chain wipe off without the other surfaces of the drivetrain being cleaned is fooling one's self. Andy.

What's been working for me is to run two chains and keep swapping between them. When one is dirty beyond the ability of a rag to clean it (about 100- 150 on limestone trails), I remove it and soak it in Dawn dishwasher detergent and water -- swishing occasionally -- and keep changing the solution until the water is no longer dirty. Occasionally I will also soak it in Acetone if it is really dirty. Frequently I have to let it soak overnight or longer before it is clean.

In the meantime, I clean the derailleur pulleys, cassette and cranks and then mount the second, clean chain so I don't miss any riding time while the dirty chain is soaking.

I like this method because it eliminates most of the elbow grease and it is the only way I know of to get the dirt out of the inside of the chain. I doubt it removes all of the dirt -- but probably more of it than any other method I have heard of...

Use a black chain. That way it takes longer before the build-up is objectionable.

I just enjoy having an ugly chain. When I ride a lot I just don't have time to worry about the cleanliness of my drivetrain. Usually it's just quick wipe down and re-lube and I'm off.

2-chains is a good method if you live in a place with THAT sort of clingy dirt.
You may find that kerosene is a better cleaning solvent. When I run 2 chains, I use 2 jam-jars full of kerosene. I put the dirty chain in one for a few days, shake it around and let it settle, then lift, drain back into the jar and transfer the chain to a jar of cleaner kerosene for a 2nd wash. The kerosene can be re-used and dirt will settle at the bottom of the jar so you can decant the clean liquid to another jar.
Hang the chain to dry and lube each link then store in a plastic bag until needed.
The work is only occasional and it is separated from the changing of a chain, so in winter it is easier to put on a clean chain without the unpleasantness of cleaning on an a cold, rainy day.

Thanks, I'll give that a try... I use the dishwashing detergent soak to get the worst of the crud off and then switch to acetone because it seemed that only an organic solvent would get rid of the hard packed waxy buildup on the chain. Acetone works well -- but it's expensive. I'm always in favor of saving money!

Oh good. An opportunity to talk about hot waxing.

1. Soak, scrub, rinse and repeat, cleaning your chain until it's squeaky clean inside and out. Let it dry.
2. Dip your chain into a hot vat of melted wax. Be careful during this step not to burn down your house because the wax vapors will burn. I think there might be an incantation that goes with the process and maybe something about the moon phase but I forget that part.
3. Let your chain cool and let the big flakes of wax break off.

I've never done it myself because it sounds like too much trouble but the elite group of folks who are chain waxers swear by it and claim to always have nice clean chains.

A little chemistry lesson is in order. Acetone is a polar organic solvent. Polar organic solvents are water soluble and acetone is water soluble in all proportions. In other words, you can't add enough acetone to water to make it separate. This means that it is a really polar organic solvent.

Oils and waxes are nonpolar materials. That means that they don't dissolve in water to any great extent. Chemicals that are polar and chemicals that are nonpolar don't really mix all that well. Think salad dressing. Your acetone treatment works well to remove the water that you used with the dishwashing liquid and is a good idea if you are going to go that route but the acetone treatment is to remove the water that can rust the chain but not the oils and/or waxes of a lubricant. Soaking the chain overnight in acetone basically does nothing to remove the oil on the chain and is an expensive but useless treatment.

In chemistry we use a simple rule of thumb, "like dissolves like". It applies well to bicycle maintenance as well. If you want to remove water, use something polar like acetone. If you want to remove oil, you should use something similar to the oil. What you should be using is mineral spirits. If you use mineral spirits, you can do everything in a single go. No washing with detergent than chasing with something to remove the water. Simply soak in mineral spirits, remove the chain and let it dry.

Even the soaking part is pretty straight forward and simple. I feed the chain into an old 16 oz Gatorade bottle because those have a wide mouth. Any jar with a wide mouth will do, however. Cap the jar, shake it for 30 seconds and remove the chain. The chain will be cleaner than it has ever been. No need to fuss with water and detergent and drying and rusting the chain. Once the mineral spirits have evaporated, you can install and relube.

As for the grime problem, edotomato, you are fighting viscosity. You have added an oil to a chain. The oil will move to the lowest spot in each link as the chain sits since the oil is a liquid. It wants to drip off so you have to constantly wipe it off as it moves to the outside of the chain when the chain isn't moving. You say that you are using Finish Line Ceramic but not which one. If you are constantly wiping the chain, I assume that you are use the Wet version. Wet lubricants are never going to stay in one place. The lubricant is meant to move around and you are going to have to constantly address that movement. A dry lube is meant to stay in place by using a higher viscosity material for lubrication. It has a carrier solvent that allows it to penetrate into the chain but once there, the solvent evaporates and the lubricant stays in place. You might want to try the Finish Line Dry if you want to keep from constantly wiping your chain.

cyccommute, thanks, I understand and will try it -- with one caveat: the water dishwashing detergent is really just a simple, cheap method meant to remove the heaviest part of the caked on limestone dust and grit that is clinging to the chain. I could try to brush it off or wipe it off -- and I do that in between removing the chain for a thorough cleaning. But it's a lot of work without much benefit. So instead I simply dump the chain in a bucket with about 3 inches of water and detergent, swish it around a bit then change the solution once it is black. After the heavy, clingy stuff is gone, then I use an organic solvent. But your point about using a non-polar organic solvent is a good one. Thanks!

I didn't read all the above, but I'll just mention that chains make their own black gunk. If you immerse a used chain in a bottle of solvent (OMS, kersosen, etc.), shake it around, remove the chain, and let the gunk settle to the bottom of the jar, you'll find that a magnet is attracted to it. It's basically steel dust worn from the chain, mainly from the inside of the rollers and outside of the bushings, but also from where it matters most, the inside of the bushings and the surface of the pins.

Mineral spirits are the best chain cleaner and kerosene is also good... as I run a space heater in cooler weather I have the large mouth containers that the kerosene comes in and can't get every drop out so use that as my chain cleaning bottle.

My home brew is 2/3 mineral spirits and for regular riding applying lube and giving the chain a good wiping down until it is dry to the touch and then giving it a follow up wipe down after the solvent has all evaporated leaves my chains glowing and very clean.

The grit is embedded in the lubricant. Putting the chain in mineral spirits would release the grit and it will settle out. You could even filter the mineral spirits to remove the grit prior to reuse...a Melita coffee filter would do a dandy job. Mineral spirits will dissolve a whole lot of oil before it's more oil than mineral spirits, by the way.

Just trying to save you a few steps and a bit of time.

Never seen jockey wheels 'shredded' by a chain. Seen lots of jockey wheels so packed up with hardened road grime and chain lube that it LOOKED like they were damaged, and if thats the case you should disassemble and clean the rear derailleur. All that junk will just redistribute itself over the nearest surface - your chain.

I like the jars of solvent and rotating chains idea myself.

Jars with smooth sides make it easier to use the cleanest stuff from the top and avoid pouring out the silt that has settled to the bottom. That I will occasionally pour from the later jars to the first (dirtiest) jar to keep the solvent in the later jars as clean as possible. :thumb:

Thanks -- and using a coffee filter to clean the solution for reuse appeals to my sense of frugality (some call it "Cheap!" -- but I think of it as "prudently frugal" and "environmentally friendly")

... and, besides, it will reduce or eliminate any chance of water causing the chain to rust.