fxdgrjedi

Hello all. Advice needed.

I have an early 90's Serotta Colorado II frame that has a very badly bent dropout and derailleur hanger as a result of a crash/derailleurcagegotsuckedintotherearwheel incident. I tried bending the hanger back to center but it kindof bent the whole dropout with it. I'm sure I could get a few vice grips on it and get everything back to center (enough to take to the shop and have them finish out with the hanger alignment tool).

I am wondering if this is a good idea. I don't want to compromise the integrity of the metal. To make matters worse, the adjustment screw hole is in the middle of everything, so bending the dropout back into place might weaken that area too.

Check out the pics attatched and lemme know what you think!

Thanks,

Carl

HillRider

That frame is valuable enough to warrant returning it to Serotta for a proper fix.

Homebrew01

Hurry before they close up. Otherwise another good framebuilder can fix it. Maybe it could be carefully bent back, but prepare for dropout replacement.

FBinNY 

If you try to straighten this cold, it's snap. You have a few choices.

Down and dirty - a skilled welder can bevel the back of the dropout and lay a bead that will be nearly flush inside and out, and the microadjust screw, or a pin trapped in the right place. Future adjustmnts will be from the left side only.

A similar repair can be done by brazing, but the heat affected zone where paint is burned off will be larger.

The right repair is to replace the dropout, but that will burn the paint for about 6-10" up both stays. You could repaint in a contrasting color, doint the same on the left so it looks as if it were intended, or you could repaint the entire frame.

Any decent frame builder can do this for you, as can many shops that routinely do frame repairs. I refer people in your situation to Yellow Jersey in Madison WI, which does this kind of repair every day, and will repaint the rear triangle area as I described. Prices are very reasonable and turnaround about as fast as it takes for paint to dry. If you want to consider repainting the entire frame, then see a builder, since they tend to have better facilities for stripping and painting frames, but a professional repaint will be more than the repair.

stilltooslow

It's a nice frame, worthy of doing it the right way. I'd send it back to Serotta (or perhaps another good frame builder) and have the dropout properly replaced. With a little attention, even you could do a reasonable respray on the effected area, but knowing that such a critical area was repaired correctly trumps all else in my mind.

FBinNY 

Oddly enough a shop like Yellow Jersey can often do this better than many frame builders. That's because the hard part of the job isn't brazing in a new dropout, but getting the original out without taking a part of the stay with it. Most builders don't have the same level of experience in debrazing since it's not something they do routinely. OTOH frame repair shops pull tubes and brazed assemblies apart every day and are quite good at it.

fxdgrjedi

Hey thanks for all the advice so far. I emailed Serotta and they said that they car not taking any repair work going forward... Bummer. Thanks for the suggestion about Yellow Jersey. Ill look into them. Does anyone have any West Coast frambuilders/shops they can recommend? I'm in Boise, ID and dont want to spend a fortune on shipping.

FBinNY 

You're not that far from what may be the frame building capital of the world these days. Look up frame builders in Portland, I'm sure one of the fifty odd could use the work. Otherwise, the cost of shipping a frame only (remove fork, but OK to leave the BB installed) is actually very low. You can send a photo Yellow Jersey via their email link and they'll give you a quote, then you'll have a basis when talking to more local folks.

BTW- there's a new frame builder in town (Boise). Look up Oxide bikes. They seem to be more of TiG vs brazing, but it's local and a good place to start.

JohnDThompson 

Those dropouts are mild steel and it should be possible to bend it back into shape without anything breaking. The problem is that all that bending will work-harden the steel and make it more susceptible to eventual fatigue failure, particularly at the dropout adjuster hole. I'd bend it back straight, and then braze the adjuster hole closed to eliminate that as a stress riser.

FBinNY 

John, with all respect, take another, closer look at the photos. These are micro-adjust dropouts, and it's already cracking at the hole, where the bend happens. I've worked with a number of these in similar conditions and the chances of pulling them back successfully are slim to none.

Of course, there's no harm in trying, since he can't be any worse off, but IMO the only hope of getting away without replacing the dropout would be to heat it to dull red before trying to pull it back, then reinforcing the crack with some braze. This will save the frame, and will cost less than a replacement, but it's still not a job for an amateur.

fietsbob

I detect a crack where the dropout screw goes , so brazing in the crack after bending it back in approximate place

is probably fine.. then get it aligned again with the shop tools, and some touch up painting, and you should be OK..

cny-bikeman

I disagree completely. The process of the dropout opening that far stretches the rear portion of the dropout, so that when the bottom is pushed back up to parallel the slot is wider than before, which compromises proper mounting, alignment and securing of the wheel. The process of bending it back up also tends to create a bulge at the rear that makes mounting the wheel near the rear of the dropout problematic. For that quality of frame I would not consider anything but replacement of the dropout (or perhaps FB's fix - not sure from the description) to be a good solution.

gregjones

I'm just lurking and wondering. Not knowing anything about this, I have what might be a dumb question.

If the dropout is replaced, would one consider installing an new one with a replaceable hanger??

Like Wheels Mfg.

fxdgrjedi

THanks, I'll check into PDX builders. I've already contacted Alan at Oxide, he is of the same opinion as everyone else, its trashed and has to be replaced. However, he only does TIG work.

fxdgrjedi

Interesting thought for sure. Ive never seen a steel bike with a replaceable hanger. Generally the benefit of steel is that one CAN bend it back. My situation is a freak/stupid/rare accident.

I'm defnitly going to get the dropout replaced, and if its not too much $$$ Im gonna get both dropouts replaced with vertical ones. And canti bosses welded on too so I can run some nice wide tires for gravel explorations!

fietsbob

Better, yes, cut in half , heat up each tube end, (melting point of the Brazing) pull out the dropout,
Braze in a New one.

Is there even a replaceable dropout in this style, I'm More familiar with seeing Vertical dropouts..

on bikes made these days.. Index systems favor the wheel going back in the same spot.




BTW need to keep on mind the chainstay , up by the BB, is where you will still have tire limitations.

and the clearance under the fork crown.. so,

.. might need to moderate the gravel grinder ambitions .. From a Road frame.


rear opening Pista Dropouts mat be another choice ..

Sixty Fiver

I agree that the dropout is trashed... we build frames but we also do a lot of repairs on steel frames and this aspect of the business was stressed to me right from the get go as sometimes this is what pays the bills and we salvage good quality dropouts and other fittings from frames that are not worth repairing.

De-brazing is harder work than brazing; great care needs to be taken when you are removing the rear dropouts from the chainstays and I'll be doing this on a bike a little later in the week as it has a broken drive side dropout and the bike (a Miyata 1000) warrants the repair. I have a "new" pair of dropouts that were salvaged from a frame that was beyond repair because of grievous damage to the headtube.

fxdgrjedi

Since its an older frame, it clears 32mm tires easily! I am limited to 28s with standard road calipers, hence wanting to get canti bosses installed!

fietsbob

looking at the 4th picture, I dont see the clearance, as being there .. just being older is not a dimension to rely on.


They look round , un dimpled on their inside facing each other .. is it 4cm+ between the stays, up front where the tire goes?



just barely clearing , would make replacing both dropouts with vertical ones a safety consideration,

as ever so slight axle movement slipping QR, will stop the wheel turning..

NavyD

I've scanned down the replies. As far as I can see no one has mentioned what to me is the most important fact. It is a gear hanger... unless the repair is a precision job the rear mech may be out of alignment. Sloppy/ impossible changes wear on block, gear mech and chain, Another WRAPAROUND!! If you use the bike seriously then PLEASE get it properly fixed. It will pay you in the long run.

fxdgrjedi

Yeah, I've measured all the spaces with a caliper, so I know it should clear a 35mm. Ive had a 32mm Ritchey Speedmax CX actually in there an it had room to spare!

fxdgrjedi

Word. I'm saving my pennies so I can get it done right with a nice respray.

cny-bikeman

Nobody has mentioned it simply because aligning the hanger is a minor consideration compared to the issue of the dropout's integrity and the wheel even being able to mount properly in the bike once "straighened."

NavyD

I don't get it , cny-bikeman. Are we not arguing the same thing.... If the drop-out/hanger (A SINGLE ELEMENT?) is not correctly aligned the gear mech may not work properly. Are you considering the hanger to be separate or different to the drop-out????.......You can still fit a wheel into many a bent drop-out.

MichaelW

There is a special tool to bend and align dropouts as part of frame finishing.
There is a separate tool to align the hanger.
The hanger tool is usually used with the rear wheel in place to avoid bending the dropouts as well. Were you dropouts bent by the crash or the mole-grip realignment of the hanger?
As advised above, rear dropouts are FUBAR and worthy of replacement.