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Rear Wheel Rubbing off paint on side of Frame, Repair stand/Truing stand Questions

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Rear Wheel Rubbing off paint on side of Frame, Repair stand/Truing stand Questions

Old 10-18-13, 02:21 PM
  #1  
TekMann
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Rear Wheel Rubbing off paint on side of Frame, Repair stand/Truing stand Questions

Hey all, So I recently bought a new pair of brakes and while installing them I found another small problem: ive noticed an odd sound while riding the past week or so and figured out that it was my rear wheel rubbing against the left side of my frame. I assumed that I just placed the rear wheel unevenly, but after readjusting my rear wheel a few times, I realized it was placed correctly. So in my mind, the only other two possibilities are either my frame is actually bent (which i don't think it is...) or my rear wheel is needs truing. Can you guys tell me if my hunch is correct?

Here are a few Pictures to help you guys understand, in case i am not making sense: http://imgur.com/a/2TIx4/embed#0 (Sorry for the bad Picture quality, taken from my phone.)


This leads me to a few other questions:

1) Firstly I was considering buying a repair stand and I've heard good things about the Minoura RS-5000. Does anyone have their two-cents they could throw at this pick? Any other suggestions that I should also consider?

2) I shamefully know next to nothing about truing a wheel... and have never really done much adjusting at all, but if this is the problem (and even if it isn't), I am now considering picking up a truing stand and just diving into learning about it. Are there any suggestions on a quality stand that is good value? I've read that the best is the Park Tools TS-2.2, but that is quite expensive.
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Old 10-18-13, 02:33 PM
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From the look of your photo, it could be the tire is too big (wide) for the frame , to fix is to replace the tire with a narrower one . Or as you stated the wheel need truing . Parktool CRS- 10 is a good one . Park also has less costing truing stand which will still do a nice job .
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Old 10-18-13, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TekMann View Post
Hey all, So I recently bought a new pair of brakes and while installing them I found another small problem: ive noticed an odd sound while riding the past week or so and figured out that it was my rear wheel rubbing against the left side of my frame. I assumed that I just placed the rear wheel unevenly, but after readjusting my rear wheel a few times, I realized it was placed correctly. So in my mind, the only other two possibilities are either my frame is actually bent (which i don't think it is...) or my rear wheel is needs truing. Can you guys tell me if my hunch is correct?

Here are a few Pictures to help you guys understand, in case i am not making sense: http://imgur.com/a/2TIx4/embed#0 (Sorry for the bad Picture quality, taken from my phone.)


This leads me to a few other questions:

1) Firstly I was considering buying a repair stand and I've heard good things about the Minoura RS-5000. Does anyone have their two-cents they could throw at this pick? Any other suggestions that I should also consider?

2) I shamefully know next to nothing about truing a wheel... and have never really done much adjusting at all, but if this is the problem (and even if it isn't), I am now considering picking up a truing stand and just diving into learning about it. Are there any suggestions on a quality stand that is good value? I've read that the best is the Park Tools TS-2.2, but that is quite expensive.
While your wheel could be improperly dished, that is a rare event. Before you go messing with the wheel, you should insure that the wheel is indeed centered in the dropout. Your bike has adjusters on the dropout to center the wheel. Pull the wheel back against the adjusters as far back on both sides as it will go. The wheel should be centered if the adjusters are properly set. If the left side is too far forward, you'll see that the wheel isn't centered. Try pushing the left side forward until the wheel is properly centered then move the adjuster accordingly.

Also try rolling the wheel and watching how the rim moves relative to the brake pads. If the wheel is out of true, you'll see it immediately as the rim wobbles between the pads. Finally, you can check the dish by putting the wheel in so that it is in normally and noting the distance from the pad to the rim. Now remove the wheel and put it in backwards (removing the chain will make this easier to do) so that the cogs are on the left side. If the wheel isn't dished properly, it will be closer to the pads on one side than the other.

My bet is still on the adjusters.
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Old 10-18-13, 02:49 PM
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Here are a few things to check:

1. Check your rear axle to see whether or not it is broken - simply remove the wheel from the bike, remove the quick release skewer and tug on the ends of the axle...if it is broken it will be apparent and should pull out of the hub in pieces.


2. If the axle is not broken check your hub adjustment. It is possible for a loose hub to manifest as the problem you are experiencing.

3. Check to see if you have a broken spoke.

You can tell whether your wheel needs truing by sighting the gap between the brake pads and the rim while the wheel is spining. If there wheel is out of true enough to hit the frame it will be readily apparent as the wheel spins....it could be out of true due to a broken spoke or from damage to the rim.

The minoura stand you linked to looks alright. There are lots of designs out there. I have and prefer the Feedback/Ultimate Pro-Elite stand and many on this forum seem to swear by the Park PRS-10, while others like a totally different design like the Park PRS-20.

The Park TS-2.2 is an expensive tool...especially for someone who admits they have no experience truing wheels. It is a nice piece of equipment and will most likely outlive you so if you buy it you will never need to buy and most likely will never feel the need to buy another truing stand...but that said...it is not essential to have such an expensive stand to true wheels. There are lots of more inexpensive models on the market. I have had a TS-2 since 1991 and I love it. It is a staple item on my workbench. If you are interested in the TS-2.2 but do not rider a 29er or are looking to buy a 29er in the near future then look for a TS-2...they are almost identical but since it was updated to the TS-2.2 the TS-2 can be found for less money. The main difference is the support arms and the indicator arms are both longer to accommodate truing 29er wheels with the tires on. The reality is that a 29er wheel is just a 700c rim designed for mt bike use...if you take the tire off to true both lateral and vertical runout you don't need the longer arms or indicators of the TS-2.2.

A spoke wrench is the hands of someone who does not know what to do with it is a dangerous thing to a bicycle wheel. Read up on the subject and/or see if there are any maintenance classes in your area at a local co-op or an REI.

-j
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Old 10-18-13, 03:49 PM
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Plenty of how-to videos on YouTube.
Cheers
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Old 10-18-13, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
While your wheel could be improperly dished, that is a rare event. Before you go messing with the wheel, you should insure that the wheel is indeed centered in the dropout. Your bike has adjusters on the dropout to center the wheel. Pull the wheel back against the adjusters as far back on both sides as it will go. The wheel should be centered if the adjusters are properly set. If the left side is too far forward, you'll see that the wheel isn't centered. Try pushing the left side forward until the wheel is properly centered then move the adjuster accordingly.

Also try rolling the wheel and watching how the rim moves relative to the brake pads. If the wheel is out of true, you'll see it immediately as the rim wobbles between the pads. Finally, you can check the dish by putting the wheel in so that it is in normally and noting the distance from the pad to the rim. Now remove the wheel and put it in backwards (removing the chain will make this easier to do) so that the cogs are on the left side. If the wheel isn't dished properly, it will be closer to the pads on one side than the other.

My bet is still on the adjusters.
Funny you should mention that cyccommute! For the past few months I generally screw the adjusters as tight as possible so that they hug the end of the frame. I assumed that because the adjusters were even and my tire was touching the frame, that there must be something wrong with my wheel. However if i play with my adjusters to the point where the left side is tighter (more screwed into the frame) than the right side, then my wheel seems way more centered. There is a slight wobble, but nothing too drastic.

Am I doing something wrong? I always assumed that the adjusters needed to be at an even level.

Thank You guys for the advice on repair stands and truing stands! I will continue my research and probably learn how to true a wheel first before getting a stand, like skoda mentioned i should just look at youtube for some vids.
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Old 10-19-13, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TekMann View Post
.. For the past few months I generally screw the adjusters as tight as possible so that they hug the end of the frame. I assumed that because the adjusters were even and my tire was touching the frame, that there must be something wrong with my wheel. ... I always assumed that the adjusters needed to be at an even level.
The adjusters are there to be adjusted. Either to accomodate minor differences in dropout placement, or to fine-tune where the axle sit WRT the derailer hanger, or both. Put the wheel where the wheel needs to be, and don't worry what you have to do with the adjusters to make that happen.
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Old 10-19-13, 06:40 AM
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Plenty of clearance. If the wheel rubs on the left side and not the right then it is not centered in the drops. And if the wheel were that far out of true you'd notice the wobble in the brakes way before it wobbles far enough to hit the chain stay. This is a common problem for horizontal drops. When you pedal hard it pulls the right side of the axle forward in the drops and causes the tire to rub the left chainstay. Re-center the wheel so that the tire is perfectly centered between the stays and make it extra tight on the QR's.
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Old 10-19-13, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TekMann View Post
Funny you should mention that cyccommute! For the past few months I generally screw the adjusters as tight as possible so that they hug the end of the frame. I assumed that because the adjusters were even and my tire was touching the frame, that there must be something wrong with my wheel. However if i play with my adjusters to the point where the left side is tighter (more screwed into the frame) than the right side, then my wheel seems way more centered. There is a slight wobble, but nothing too drastic.

Am I doing something wrong? I always assumed that the adjusters needed to be at an even level.

Thank You guys for the advice on repair stands and truing stands! I will continue my research and probably learn how to true a wheel first before getting a stand, like skoda mentioned i should just look at youtube for some vids.
You might want to check the frame alignment. Sheldon Brown has a easy method for checking it.
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Old 10-19-13, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TekMann View Post
I assumed that because the adjusters were even and my tire was touching the frame, that there must be something wrong with my wheel. However if i play with my adjusters to the point where the left side is tighter (more screwed into the frame) than the right side, then my wheel seems way more centered. There is a slight wobble, but nothing too drastic.

Am I doing something wrong? I always assumed that the adjusters needed to be at an even level.
No, the adjusters are there to ensure that the wheel is returned to the optimal position in the dropouts. If the chainstays are the same length and the frame is in alignment, the adjusters will match on each side, but this isn't always the case, particularly with production frames. Set the adjusters so that the wheel is centered between the chainstays, and ignore the fact that one of the adjusters is further in than the other (or, I suppose, saw off one of them so they match).
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Old 11-14-13, 01:39 PM
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Hello Guys, I thought I would update this thread/close it out in case anyone had this problem in the future. After coming back to the problem and Checking on things I realized what possibly could be the main culprit: My rear axle was fractured in two. I am planning on getting this fixed ASAP, but I wanted to know if buying any new axle will work all the same. If I just bought an entry level/cheap axle, will i got any slower or will it break easily? These might be silly questions, but I've never replaced this part before.

Thank You!
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Old 11-14-13, 01:58 PM
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if you have a seven or eight speed freewheel
the axle will likely bend again pretty quickly
as the wide freehweels require a long unsupported drive side of the axle

the other thing that encourages bent axles
is the paralellism of the dropouts
if the rear dropouts are not perfectly paralell and in line
then they put additionl stress on the axle

a heavy load on a freewheel wheel
can bend an axle even if everything else is perfect
then the bent axle can misalign the dropouts
which can make future bent axles more likely
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Old 11-14-13, 02:02 PM
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It is a 10 Speed and the hub is a shimano HB-6207, if that matters at all. So what are my options? To buy a better quality Axle and ride more carefully? Or it generally doesnt matter?
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Old 11-14-13, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TekMann View Post
Hello Guys, I thought I would update this thread/close it out in case anyone had this problem in the future. After coming back to the problem and Checking on things I realized what possibly could be the main culprit: My rear axle was fractured in two. I am planning on getting this fixed ASAP, but I wanted to know if buying any new axle will work all the same. If I just bought an entry level/cheap axle, will i got any slower or will it break easily? These might be silly questions, but I've never replaced this part before.

Thank You!
See post # 4 above.....What do I win?



-j
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Old 11-14-13, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TekMann View Post
It is a 10 Speed and the hub is a shimano HB-6207, if that matters at all. So what are my options? To buy a better quality Axle and ride more carefully? Or it generally doesnt matter?
when i said seven or eight speeds
i meant the number of cogs on the rear

and i think when you say your bike is a ten speed
you mean the 1970s or 80s term for a road bike that has five or six cogs and two chainrings on the crank
while a modern ten speed hub has ten cogs on the rear
but they generally have a freehub design that prevents bent and broken axles

so your five or six speed freewheel wheel should not be overly prone to bending or breaking axles
as the seven and eight speed ones have a longer length of unsupported axle

and if the one you just discovered broken was the original
then it lasted for longer than most of the people on bike forums have been alive
so slap another one in there and see what happens
but make sure the dropouts are aligned first
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Old 11-15-13, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
when i said seven or eight speeds
i meant the number of cogs on the rear

and i think when you say your bike is a ten speed
you mean the 1970s or 80s term for a road bike that has five or six cogs and two chainrings on the crank
while a modern ten speed hub has ten cogs on the rear
but they generally have a freehub design that prevents bent and broken axles

so your five or six speed freewheel wheel should not be overly prone to bending or breaking axles
as the seven and eight speed ones have a longer length of unsupported axle

and if the one you just discovered broken was the original
then it lasted for longer than most of the people on bike forums have been alive
so slap another one in there and see what happens
but make sure the dropouts are aligned first
Sorry, I was in so much of a rush that I actually miscounted my cogs haha. Its a 12 speed and there are 6 cogs on the rear wheel.

Originally Posted by Greenfieldja View Post
See post # 4 above.....What do I win?
You Just Win. Cause You Win at Life! lols.

I was calling/checking out a few LBS nearby and apparently most of them don't have axles readily available and need to special order them. A few have a regular entry-level axle, nothing fancy. One shop tried to sell me an after market axle that could be cut to the measurements I need and he claims it would "work just as well," Though he will charge me $30 for the whole ordeal.

I am starting to think that I should just try to buy New old stock from Ebay or something. Does the Quality of my axle really matter for anything? I am just concerned since it is a part that is connecting many other moving parts as well, so I figured the axle has to be of decent quality for a decent ride. If an aftermarket axle would work just as well, please set me straight!

I was also thinking about putting in new bearings too. Do the quality of the bearing have any effect on my ride? or is it all the same with any bearings I buy?

Sorry if these silly questions, I don't know much about wheel construction or how to pick/choose quality parts regarding to it, so I'm afraid of people ripping me off.

Last edited by TekMann; 11-15-13 at 01:55 AM.
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