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Anything bad about Tiagra 4600 hubs? Can the front handle radial lacing?

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Anything bad about Tiagra 4600 hubs? Can the front handle radial lacing?

Old 10-19-13, 05:28 PM
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tcpasley
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Anything bad about Tiagra 4600 hubs? Can the front handle radial lacing?

Do y'all have any negative opinions of Tiagra 4600 hubs? eBikeStop.com has a good deal on them, and I was looking to buy 2 sets. Also, does anyone know if the 32h front hubs can withstand radial lacing?

I imagine they would be reliable for normal road use. I realize they use loose ball bearings (no problem), and they weigh about the same as Ultegra hubs.

As always, any advice is greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-19-13, 05:45 PM
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I've never had problems with radial lacing on front hubs, either before or after the "radial...voids warranty" disclaimers. The key to successful radial is lighter spokes at reasonable tension. I never radial lace anything heavier than an 2/1.8/2mm spoke except for special purpose short track wheels where greater lateral rigidity is desirable.
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Old 10-19-13, 06:07 PM
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FB means 2/1.8/2mm, and it's good advice.
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Old 10-19-13, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
FB means 2/1.8/2mm, and it's good advice.
Yes, typo, since fixed, thanks
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Old 10-19-13, 06:19 PM
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I have me some Tiagra hubs; I don't recall if they're 4500 or 4600. Good reliable hubs. Engagement is slow (which is actually the in-thing for roadbeasts these days, from what I understand) and you won't impress anyone, but they're easily adjusted/repacked/rebuilt, most parts are available, and they're dirt cheap. (You're right; at $37/hubset, the price at ebikestop is pretty rockin'--typically, I've found that retailer to be a bit high...) At $15 front/$22 rear, you might want to grab a third set to gab parts off of (rubber gaskets, bearings, hardware, q/r skewers, whatever....)
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Old 10-19-13, 07:53 PM
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I picked up a front for a wheel build on a 70's 10 speed road bike.
What I liked=
11 balls per side instead of the usual 10.(That "should" be "better"?)
3mm spacer on each side that can be removed/changed for the old, narrow spacing on some forks. (94mm?)

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830753788.pdf

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Old 10-19-13, 08:43 PM
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More balls per side then I've got fingers... what's this world coming to? Andy.
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Old 10-19-13, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
More balls per side then I've got fingers... what's this world coming to? Andy.
I had a cousin with 12 toes!
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Old 10-19-13, 10:23 PM
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So, did that make him better or more sure footed than your other cousins who only had 11?
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Old 10-20-13, 01:23 AM
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They're great, solid hubs. Won't win you any snob points but they'll last forever if you maintain them.

Go ahead and radial lace them (the front anyway) regardless of what Shimano says. Just don't use 2.0mm spokes combined with a ridiculously high tension and you'll be fine.
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Old 10-20-13, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
So, did that make him better or more sure footed than your other cousins who only had 11?
Actually, he was the only one that had 11 toes.
Briefly, on his way to only having 10.
Apparently, there was something "socially unacceptable"? about being polydactyl.

http://www.11points.com/Misc/11_Famo...ingers_or_Toes

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Old 10-20-13, 08:51 AM
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Recalling something read,(@ Rohloff) suggested in analysis, of reducing flange cracks ..

the head making machine in the spoke factory leaves flashing, 2 raised lines on the back of the head.

and suggested smoothing down that flashing, on each spoke head , before assembly.

which is an attention to detail, that I've not considered, before..
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Old 10-20-13, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tcpasley View Post
Do y'all have any negative opinions of Tiagra 4600 hubs? eBikeStop.com has a good deal on them, and I was looking to buy 2 sets. Also, does anyone know if the 32h front hubs can withstand radial lacing?
First of all, the last set of Tiagra hubs that I've worked with had bigger front flanges and didn't come with a warning about radial laceing.

Second, thanks for the tip. I've been looking at a pair of Open Pro rims in my workshop for several years. I just ordered the hubset and spokes to lace them up. Son's birthday is November 12. He doesn't think he needs an every day wheelset but he's going to get one anyway.
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Old 10-20-13, 10:32 AM
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Generally speaking Tiagra hubs are great for your everyday kick around wheelset. The cone races aren't treated and the bearings aren't stainless as with 105 hubs, so they should be fine for most applications barring touring and racing.
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Old 10-20-13, 10:42 AM
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Thanks to all for the advice. EBikeStop has a free shipping over $79 through today, so I plan on placing an order.

Another question while I have some wheelbuilding types on the line. I plan to build these hubs with some Sum ME14a rims and some DT Swiss Aero spokes ($0.75 per spoke at ColoradoCyclist.com). What would y'all recommend for lacing? I planned on:

Front: Radial, heads out
Rear: 2x or 3x (not sure)

I'm not sure which model of DT Swiss Aero spokes they are. Colorado Cyclist customer service could only say they don't require slotted spoke holes, so I'm guessing they're something like Aero Comps

Thanks,
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Old 10-20-13, 12:11 PM
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Do you have a link to the spokes?
The only $.75 spokes I see on their site are 14 ga. DT Champions that were $.50 a few weeks ago.
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Old 10-20-13, 01:08 PM
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The flanges on the HB-4600 that I used to build up a front wheel for my girlfriend are thick and reassuring-looking. I'd be surprised if they didn't handle a radial build, provided you consider the good advice given earlier in the thread.
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Old 10-20-13, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
Do you have a link to the spokes?
The only $.75 spokes I see on their site are 14 ga. DT Champions that were $.50 a few weeks ago.
Try this => http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/item/DTXCZWA6
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Old 10-25-13, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Recalling something read,(@ Rohloff) suggested in analysis, of reducing flange cracks ..

the head making machine in the spoke factory leaves flashing, 2 raised lines on the back of the head.

and suggested smoothing down that flashing, on each spoke head , before assembly.

which is an attention to detail, that I've not considered, before..
Wouldn't spoke washers be easier?
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Old 10-25-13, 11:04 AM
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Thinner steel flanges .. maybe.. then the J hook wont have to be opened up..

But R'off was analyzing how their hub shells may crack. and the attention to detail
seems to be a trait amongst Germanic Engineer's training..



bodging improv with tape and bailing wire , and making it work . maybe not so much..
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Old 10-25-13, 12:14 PM
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First of all, if you want to use these hubs, buy extra cones NOW....Shimano has a miserable track record when it comes to supporting hubs with spare parts.

Secondly, there's no good reason to radially spoke a wheel. It might look neato, to some people, but many rims have the eyelets aimed for crossed spoking, and building them otherwise defeats the purpose. Sure, there are purpose built carbon wheels with radial spoking, but for an everyday wheel, I think it's kinda ridiculous....

And I always use spoke head washers on non-Dura Ace Shimano hubs with their gaping spoke holes in order to protect against spoke breakage.
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Old 10-26-13, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BikeWise1 View Post
First of all, if you want to use these hubs, buy extra cones NOW....Shimano has a miserable track record when it comes to supporting hubs with spare parts. ---
I just received the hubs. Out of the box the bearings are appallingly tight. The cones would be ruined if the hubs were ridden in this state. Maybe I should buy some spares right away.

Is this typical of new Shimano hubs/wheels? I can't believe they would sell $$$ wheelsets with self-destructing hubs. If they're not going to bother to adjust the bearings, they should leave them a little loose rather than too tight.

Any opinions on the Shimano factory grease? Do they use enough? I'd rather not crack open a brand new hub, but I will if necessary. New components should not require service right out of the box.

FWIW - The front hub flanges do seem stout enough for radial lacing, though I'm still on the fence about that.
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Old 10-26-13, 12:19 PM
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Hubs are often supplied from the factory with a tight bearing adjustment. There are two reasons.

1- the OEM and production wheel building clients need tight - zero play - adjustment for the automatic truing machines to work properly.
2- depending on how the cones and cups are ground, there's often very rapid break-in wear, so they start out seemingly tight and break in to perfect adjustment.

The knowledgeable user can adjust the cones now, and readjust them later, but hubs shipped slightly tight make sense for the masses, especially on lower end hubs which see more break-in wear than premium hubs.
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Old 10-26-13, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tcpasley View Post
I just received the hubs. Out of the box the bearings are appallingly tight. The cones would be ruined if the hubs were ridden in this state. Maybe I should buy some spares right away.

Is this typical of new Shimano hubs/wheels? I can't believe they would sell $$$ wheelsets with self-destructing hubs. If they're not going to bother to adjust the bearings, they should leave them a little loose rather than too tight.

Any opinions on the Shimano factory grease? Do they use enough? I'd rather not crack open a brand new hub, but I will if necessary. New components should not require service right out of the box.
Too loose: customer instantly notices a problem (wobble in the wheel.) Too tight: clueless customer notices nothing until their bearings are destroyed years later. There is also the break in period but I'm not sure how much that changes the adjustment.

Since you're loosening them up already to adjust, open them up enough to inspect the factory grease. More is not going to hurt.
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Old 10-26-13, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tcpasley View Post
I just received the hubs. Out of the box the bearings are appallingly tight. The cones would be ruined if the hubs were ridden in this state. Maybe I should buy some spares right away......
Interesting! The one 4600 front hub I bought is the only Shimano hub I've bought that seemed to have adequate grease and wasn't overly tight.
It is the "highest quality" hub I've bought in the Shimano pecking order. (lot of FH-RM30's)

When you consider that Wheels Mfg. replacement cones are $9 a pop, it might make sense to buy a spare $20 hub?
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