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in Hi-Hi (Large-Small) chain rubs on FD plate

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in Hi-Hi (Large-Small) chain rubs on FD plate

Old 10-24-13, 10:20 AM
  #1  
pstock
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in Hi-Hi (Large Rear+Small Front) chain rubs on FD plate

Not sure what I can do here or what's wrong with this setup.

I am setting up this bike with a triple front chainring and 9S rear cassette after having swapped out a faulty octalink BB (the replacement BB was identical - 118.5 width axle) So I had to remove and reinstall the crank arms.

But checking the setup I find the chain is rubbing against the inside FD plate when in Hi and Hi-1 (so largest and 2nd largest rear) on the small front chainring.

the stop limit is opened up fully so the rubber ring on the FD is basically butted up against the seat tube. it is not quite against it. I can slip a business card between the rubber ring and the seat tube but i cannot get it to drop even that last little bit that might allow the chain to just clear. I've released the cable to ensure all tension is off.

any suggestions? Are there specific FDs for a triple? If so, might I have a double on? (I swapped on an Ultegra FD from my stash to replace the 105 originally there which had the same problem)

is the horizontal position of an Octalink BB adjustable so that I might have to shift it out slightly to the right?

Thanks for any insights.

Peter
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Last edited by pstock; 10-24-13 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 10-24-13, 10:38 AM
  #2  
Al1943
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I'm sorry but your post is confusing as to which combinations of chainring and cassette cogs are causing the chain to rub on the inside rail of the FD.
Yes, you do need a triple specific FD. And which FD will work best depends partly on the size of the chainrings and partly on the chain width the it was designed for.
If the chainrub occurs when the chain is on the biggest chainring and smallest cogs that's normal and those combinations should be avoided.
Be sure that the crankset is properly aligned with the spline pattern on the BB.
The BB and crankset should be torqued to specs. If not, the chainline could be off.
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Old 10-24-13, 10:45 AM
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If you are cross chaining (big to big or small to small) then don't do that. You will get rubbing especially with a triple setup which is normal and accepted.

Make sure your front derailleur is a triple front derailleur. What is the model number of the Ultegra, a triple I think should end with 3. We can't see the front derailleur from your pictures.
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Old 10-24-13, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bobotech View Post
If you are cross chaining (big to big or small to small) then don't do that. You will get rubbing especially with a triple setup which is normal and accepted.
.
+1 This is normal for indexed front derailleurs. It can sometimes be dialed out with very careful alignment of the cage, and the trim set as inboard as possible without the ouer plate rubbing in high. Many newer model road FDs have two closely spaced clicks for high allowing trimming for the larger cassette sprockets, but your apparently doesn't.

Before index shifting, and currently with micro ratchet systems like Campagnolo, riders would trim the FD cage according to the angle the chain was coming from, but single click FD levers don't give you that option.

OTOH, riding crossed over is hard on the chain and involves more friction loss and so is best avoided anyway. A similar gear ratio can be had using the inner ring and a mid sprocket on the cassette.
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Old 10-24-13, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by pstock View Post
........I am setting up this bike with a triple front chainring and 9S rear cassette after having swapped out a faulty octalink BB (the replacement BB was identical - 118.5 width axle) So I had to remove and reinstall the crank arms.......
Was the original "set up" a triple?
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Old 10-24-13, 11:37 AM
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Large Rear + small front

Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
I'm sorry but your post is confusing as to which combinations of chainring and cassette cogs are causing the chain to rub on the inside rail of the FD.
Yes, you do need a triple specific FD.
sorry to have been unclear.
No, it's not Cross Chaining. It's Largest Rear + Smallest Front. so climbing gears.
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Old 10-24-13, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pstock View Post
. . .
But checking the setup I find the chain is rubbing against the inside FD plate when in Hi and Hi-1 (so largest and 2nd largest rear) on the small front chainring.

the stop limit is opened up fully so the rubber ring on the FD is basically butted up against the seat tube. it is not quite against it. I can slip a business card between the rubber ring and the seat tube but i cannot get it to drop even that last little bit that might allow the chain to just clear. I've released the cable to ensure all tension is off. . .
Despite the others' posts, it does not appear you are cross-chaining. Your use of terminology raises the question: Which FD limit screw did you back off? It should have been the one marked "L".
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Old 10-24-13, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pstock View Post
sorry to have been unclear.
No, it's not Cross Chaining. It's Largest Rear + Smallest Front. so climbing gears.
Sorry I misread your post and thought you were cross chaining. This is a simple trim issue, and often solved by easing off the inner limit. In some cases you'll have to adjust the cable trim inboard, but this will affect trim and shifting on the other two chainrings so that option is limited. Probably a combination of limit and cable trim are called for.
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Old 10-24-13, 11:43 AM
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It was all Ultegra setup Except the FD which was a 105 (FD-5504)
Just checking now I see the Ultegra FD I swapped on is an FD-6600

so, if there is a specific triple FD, then I will scout around for one and swap that on and try again. (I've got quite an extensive spare parts bin. There should be one in there somewhere.)

hmm, 5504 was apparently a triple specific FD. Maybe I swapped it out to rashly and should revert, at least until I can find an Ultegra 3x FD.
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Old 10-24-13, 11:47 AM
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Also, if you did not run a triple before, your derailleur may need to be lowered. You might consider reinstalling your FD per instructions from first principles.
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Old 10-24-13, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Also, if you did not run a triple before, your derailleur may need to be lowered. You might consider reinstalling your FD per instructions from first principles.
I will reinstall from first principles. good suggestion.

I have switched back to the "originial" (or at least original to this setup as I found it) triple 105 FD.
In examining the two I see a couple of differences.
1) the inner plate on a triple (duh) is wider (so it reaches "lower" if you will). this makes perfect sense.
2) the gap between the inner and outer plate seems to be greater on a 3x FD (which also should not have surprised me).

By the way, I only started fiddling with the FD setup because while testing the BB install and set on my stand, I was having trouble shifting up to the big front ring. the chain was jamming even when I was not cross chaining but was in the middle of the cassette.
Looking at the FD I thought it looked a little high, too much clearance on the big front ring. So I lowered the 105 and started having the clearance problems I first posted (And I think I once again got my terminology screwed up. High... Low... High... High is small rear, big front... Low is Big rear..... Yes. I should have said Lowest gearing. I'll never get that.)

Interestingly, when the FD (either one) is set low on the braze on, you loose some of the rotation, which compounded the clearance problem. I have since moved the FD back UP on the clamp/braze on and was able to rotate the cage in enough to clear the chain.

But, I will still double check the install.

Thanks for your patience.

Peter
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Old 10-24-13, 02:24 PM
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Peter, If you want the Ultegra FD, you need the FD-6503 for a triple. There is a cage difference between a FD designed for a double and one designed for a triple: http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830728637.pdf . If there is still rubbing when using the FD-5504, make sure that the FD is properly aligned. If it is aligned properly then try a small washer between the front and rear cage halves at the screw on the rear of the cage to slightly widen the cage.

Brad
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Old 10-24-13, 02:42 PM
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The 5504 FD is a 105 triple 9-speed. Either a Shimano 105 9-speed or Ultegra 9-speed 6503 crankset would have been equipped with 52-42-30 chainrings. A 66xx is a 10-speed Ultegra triple equipped with 52-39-30 chainrings, this may explain why the inner rail is lower than the inner rail on the 5504.
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