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Pulling my already very short hair OUT!

Old 11-26-13, 04:47 PM
  #1  
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Pulling my already very short hair OUT!

Okay here is my dilemma! Bought new Force FD; RD; crankset; brakes; Yokozuna complete cable system.

Installed everything and on the stand with no weight on the bike shifts like a champ. Get on the bike to ride and bike will shift to lower chainring but never back into big chain ring! Taken all apart readjusted derailleur so many times I know SRAM now better than ever! Nothing.......I mean nothing works!!!

Any ideas why this is happening**********
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Old 11-26-13, 06:28 PM
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Explain what happens when you try to shift.
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Old 11-26-13, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Explain what happens when you try to shift.
It clicks and you can see it visibly move toward the big chain ring and stay there but the chain will not move to the big chain ring. You can literally stop; get off the bike; lift it off the ground and turn pedals and the darn thing then shifts onto the big chain ring! See my dilemma and reason it is driving me insane!!!!!
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Old 11-26-13, 07:22 PM
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Needs more tension on the shifter cable.
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Old 11-26-13, 07:33 PM
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Hold in the lever while you pedel. Don't just click it and let go. I usually stop pedeling, hold in the shifter, then start pedaling again. After about a half of a revolution it has shifted perfectly.
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Old 11-26-13, 07:57 PM
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Limit screw need to be let out a tiny bit more ? Too much slack in the cable so you run out of clicks ? Not much should go wrong with a front derailleur. You could follow Park tool's setup instructions.
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Old 11-26-13, 09:04 PM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by Cyclelogikal View Post
It clicks and you can see it visibly move toward the big chain ring and stay there but the chain will not move to the big chain ring. You can literally stop; get off the bike; lift it off the ground and turn pedals and the darn thing then shifts onto the big chain ring! See my dilemma and reason it is driving me insane!!!!!
so you're saying, in essence, that your weight on the bike is causing it to fail. hmmmm.

maybe a cracked frame? IDK. have to see it..., but most likely needs a cable adjustment as has been mentioned.
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Old 11-26-13, 09:07 PM
  #8  
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Front derailleurs that shift fine on the stand but not on the road aren't rare at all.

Often the difference boils down to the question of chain tension. Unlike the RD, FDs operate on the driving side of the chain. So minor changes in driving torque or chain tension affects shift response. Also understand that at the moment of engagement on an upshift, either the bike has to accelerate by about 20%, or the cranks slow by the same amount. This is easy on the stand because there's not much inertia involved, but in the real world things are different.

So, start by concentrating on bringing the driving force to zero, and just keeping the pedals moving as you upshift. Then isolate the issue (chain tension, or limit screw) by shifting via the bare wire at the downtube. If you can shift via directly pulling the cable, you need a cable trim adjustment.

OTOH- if it still won't shift via directly pulling the wire, it's probably a limit adjustment. Back off the limit by degrees until you can shift reliably by pulling the wire. Now that the limit is OK, shift via the lever, and adjust cable tension (hopefully there's a barrel someplace, or consider an inline adjuster).

So 3 steps in sequence

1- test via directly pulling the wire
2- correct limit adjustment
3- adjust trim
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Old 11-27-13, 06:51 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan View Post
so you're saying, in essence, that your weight on the bike is causing it to fail. hmmmm.

maybe a cracked frame? IDK. have to see it..., but most likely needs a cable adjustment as has been mentioned.
Not the weight, but now there is load on the system. Force exerted on the drive train that is not present on a workstand.
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Old 11-27-13, 07:24 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Not the weight, but now there is load on the system. Force exerted on the drive train that is not present on a workstand.
Yeah, actual riding loads really can't be mimicked on the repair stand. I've held the brake on to create some rear wheel drag to create an artificial load which is better than nothing. Also, mounting the bike on an indoor trainer with the tension set high can also be used as a diagnostic technique.
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Old 11-27-13, 07:26 AM
  #11  
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Rider weight pressing down the bottom bracket would seem to increase the tension in the FD cable which pivots underneath, trying to lengthen it. Or so it seems to me. I am surprised the effect appears to the opposite.
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Old 11-27-13, 07:55 AM
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Okay folks here is what I am going to do and need input on something...................This bike has internal routing for the shifters. The mechanic at one of my LBS when asked if I recabled after putting the crankset on and I told him yes, I used Yokozuna brake/shifter set. He immediately said "Blahhhh". He stated that Yoko was not as good as people state and he does not use it. Okay, subjective I know. So the bike is a 2013 Orbea Orca BRV that came with Shimano cable system but SRAM components. Worked okay but I just wanted to upgrade mainly the Apex crankset (50-34) to a Force crankset (50-34) and did. Since then the issues but I don't think the crankset would be the culprit. So I ordered Shimano cable system again to change out the Yoko to go back to Shimano.

Here is my question............the cable system does not have a barrel adjuster on the FD/RD line********** So do I replace without a way to adjust slack or cut the cable and use the barrel adjusters that came on the bike. Weird that a set does not come with barrel adjusters for internal routed frames.

Feedback welcomed if you guys have similar setups and can explain. Thanks.
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Old 11-27-13, 08:16 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Cyclelogikal View Post
Here is my question............the cable system does not have a barrel adjuster on the FD/RD line********** So do I replace without a way to adjust slack or cut the cable and use the barrel adjusters that came on the bike. Weird that a set does not come with barrel adjusters for internal routed frames.

Feedback welcomed if you guys have similar setups and can explain. Thanks.
There are many factors to take into consideration here which is pretty tough to get into without being able to show you what's going on. Provided that you installed the Yokozuna cable correctly (correctly cut, etc) they should work well. If you did not re-install the original adjuster there is an easy way to up the cable tension. Back the pinch bolt off the cable and set your low limit screw on the FD to the proper postion. Then give 1/2 of an extra turn so it is rubbing the chain. Pull the cable tight and tighten that back up, and then back the low limit off that 1/2 you gave it. It's an easy way around not having adjusters. I don't use them on my bikes but I always install one on the FD cable for customers. Most don't even want to bother with that and just bring the bike to us.
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Old 11-27-13, 09:01 AM
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I agree with the idea that the chain simply wont shift if under a heavy load. If the chain is locked into the smaller sprocket by the load, it has more strength to stay there rather than shift. Just light pedal when you want to shift.
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Old 11-27-13, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyclelogikal View Post
Okay folks here is what I am going to do and need input on something...................This bike has internal routing for the shifters. The mechanic at one of my LBS when asked if I recabled after putting the crankset on and I told him yes, I used Yokozuna brake/shifter set. He immediately said "Blahhhh". He stated that Yoko was not as good as people state and he does not use it. Okay, subjective I know. So the bike is a 2013 Orbea Orca BRV that came with Shimano cable system but SRAM components. Worked okay but I just wanted to upgrade mainly the Apex crankset (50-34) to a Force crankset (50-34) and did. Since then the issues but I don't think the crankset would be the culprit. So I ordered Shimano cable system again to change out the Yoko to go back to Shimano.

Here is my question............the cable system does not have a barrel adjuster on the FD/RD line********** So do I replace without a way to adjust slack or cut the cable and use the barrel adjusters that came on the bike. Weird that a set does not come with barrel adjusters for internal routed frames.

Feedback welcomed if you guys have similar setups and can explain. Thanks.
If you didn't have an inline adjuster to begin with, how were you setting tension on the FD cable in the first place...? If there are adjuster knobs at where the cable enters the frame, you shouldn't need one, but other than the trick mentioned above, I don't see how you could accurately adjust your FD in the first place without some kind of adjuster.

New cable is new cable -- doubt it's the Yoko system getting in the way. I'd guess cable tension is not tight enough and/or limit screw set too tight.
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Old 11-27-13, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
If you didn't have an inline adjuster to begin with, how were you setting tension on the FD cable in the first place...? If there are adjuster knobs at where the cable enters the frame, you shouldn't need one, but other than the trick mentioned above, I don't see how you could accurately adjust your FD in the first place without some kind of adjuster.

New cable is new cable -- doubt it's the Yoko system getting in the way. I'd guess cable tension is not tight enough and/or limit screw set too tight.
Likely... FD setup is no rocket science. SRAM FD needs more tension than Shimano, and you really shouldn't need an inline adjuster for FD.
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Old 11-27-13, 09:54 AM
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Rear shifting is far more sensitive to cable quality, and SRAM systems are less dependent on cable quality than Shimano or Campy. So I wouldn't sweat the Yokozunas.

Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I agree with the idea that the chain simply wont shift if under a heavy load. If the chain is locked into the smaller sprocket by the load, it has more strength to stay there rather than shift. Just light pedal when you want to shift.
That's why big rings have all those rivets these days; modern gear is designed to shift under more load. Can be sketchy thing when it's worn, though...
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Old 11-27-13, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
you really shouldn't need an inline adjuster for FD.
I wouldn't go that far... you should be able to manage without it, but it's always nice, particularly on a triple.
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Old 11-27-13, 11:45 AM
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The cable goes over the top of (not under) the FD pinch bolt, yes?
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Old 11-27-13, 12:11 PM
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I bet it has a something to do with how he is using the shift lever when under loaded shifting.
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Old 11-27-13, 12:44 PM
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I'd check FD/chain alignment and FD plates alignment too.
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Old 11-27-13, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
I bet it has a something to do with how he is using the shift lever when under loaded shifting.
Not this either. I have tried shifting on a flat road both pedaling and coasting after the shift then pedaling and same result each time. It really could be the FD limit screws are not adjusted properly. But I have tinkered with them in every direction to no avail both hogh and low screws.
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Old 11-27-13, 05:48 PM
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Take it to the local pro and have him show you how to set it up.
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Old 11-27-13, 07:55 PM
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To the OP

If you have any hair left, take a few minutes to do my diagnostic (post 8) to localize the issue to either the FD itself or it's adjustments, or to the lever and cable adjustments. To repeat, ride and shift by pulling the cable away from the frame at the downtube (not using the lever). What happens will tell you where to look for the answer.

If you don't pin it down to either place, you'll be working in circles until you run out of hair and give up.
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Old 11-27-13, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
The cable goes over the top of (not under) the FD pinch bolt, yes?
I don't know the answer to this question but it is a good question. I had no end of problems with a front derailleur and it turned out that I had run the cable on the wrong side of the pinch bolt.
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