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Looking for build advise.....

Old 12-25-13, 03:50 PM
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Mondo734
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Looking for build advise.....

Hi all,

Here's the rundown. I am building a flat bar road bike using a Jamis Nova frame (cx frame). currently here is what I have:

1.Frame and fork- jamis nova
2.Headset - cane creek 40
3.Stem - oval innovations 110mm
4.Seatpost
5.Saddle
6.Brake levers - avid fr5
7.Brakes - Tektro rx-5 mini v-brakes
9. Handlebar - Oval innovations flatbar

I am now ready to start putting together the drive train. I am thinking that 3x9 would be ideal. To this point I was thinking I would just order an Alivio groupset. First off I am unsure if I need a top or bottom pull front derailleur, or if it even matters. I know I need a clamp on FD and I know the diameter size is 28mm. As for the crankset I don't quite get the bottom bracket thing, so if someone could help with this it would be huge. Aside from those questions I am open to advice as well as any other comments. Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-25-13, 04:25 PM
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You are unsure, I cannot even see the thing so I cannot say.

would a trip to a bike shop help? they will spot things I cannot see ..




Want a simple triple ? SRAM Dual Drive, the triple is in the Hub internals. only 1 chainring needed and no FD.

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-26-13 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 12-25-13, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
You are unnure, I cannot even see the thing so I cannot say.

would a trip to a bike shop help? they will spot things I cannot see ..

Want a simple triple ? SRAM Dual Drive, the triple is in the Hub internals. only 1 chainring needed and no FD.
Is there something specific on the frame that would indicate one way or the other?
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Old 12-25-13, 04:34 PM
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1. Top vs. bottom pull front derailleur. Examine your frame to see where the cable guides are located. If you can't find a cable stop for the front derailleur, it's probably designed for an under the bottom bracket bottom pull derailleur.

2. You didn't ask about top swing vs. bottom swing, but it's something to think about. If your seat tube is flared at the bottom, you need a bottom swing. If you have water bottle mounts where a bottom swing derailleur would go, you need a top swing.

3. There are several factors which determine what BB you need:
Carefully measure the width of your bottom bracket shell. It'll be either 68 or 73 mm. Your bottom bracket needs to match that.
If you buy a new crankset, the seller should be able to suggest a BB spindle length. My (outdated) book says Alivio cranksets need either a 118 Octalink V2 or a
118 mm square taper. It depends on the shape of the hole in the crank arms.

If you don't already own the mini Vs, I'd rethink them.
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Old 12-25-13, 04:40 PM
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Is there something specific on the frame that would indicate one way or the other?
cable stop on the upper back side of the seat tube and 3 cable guides on top of the top tube.
RD, RB & FD.

just 1 on top there will be 2 on the downtube. + the plastic guide under the BB..
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Old 12-25-13, 04:43 PM
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Thanks all that has been useful. I am pretty sure the bb is 68mm and I also believe that the alivio crankset uses the octolink v2.
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Old 12-25-13, 05:20 PM
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You should double check the datasheet for the front deraillerur but IIRC the low to mid range Shimano MTB derailleurs are dual pull,
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Old 12-25-13, 06:40 PM
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This is a steel Nova? Assuming from the 28.6 FD clamp?

Definitely got a 68mm shell. Definitely got bottom-routed derailer cables. Definitely came with a double* with a high-clamp/bottom swing FD. I used to sell these things, so I know'm pretty good.

My old room-mate had one, too. Pretty sweet frame.

If you're going for flat-bars, easiest way is to keep the whole thing MTB-components, so you won't have left shifter/FD issues. Many Shimano MTB cranks have the 48/36/26t option, for more road-ish gear ratios....

*EDIT- some years came with a triple, before compacts got popular. Will work with either, of course. Tell me the colors, and I can prolly tell you the year.

Last edited by surreal; 12-25-13 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 12-26-13, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Bezalel View Post
You should double check the datasheet for the front deraillerur but IIRC the low to mid range Shimano MTB derailleurs are dual pull,
Yea, most of the lower end ones that I have looked at are dual pull, and specifically the alivio one is dual pull.
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Old 12-26-13, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by surreal View Post
This is a steel Nova? Assuming from the 28.6 FD clamp?

Definitely got a 68mm shell. Definitely got bottom-routed derailer cables. Definitely came with a double* with a high-clamp/bottom swing FD. I used to sell these things, so I know'm pretty good.

My old room-mate had one, too. Pretty sweet frame.

If you're going for flat-bars, easiest way is to keep the whole thing MTB-components, so you won't have left shifter/FD issues. Many Shimano MTB cranks have the 48/36/26t option, for more road-ish gear ratios....

*EDIT- some years came with a triple, before compacts got popular. Will work with either, of course. Tell me the colors, and I can prolly tell you the year.
You are awesome, thanks that was very helpful I searched the internet and couldn't find a definitive answer on the bb size. Its is indeed a steel frame and I looked it up on bikepedia the year is 2007.
After reading the posts from earlier I checkout the frame and did notice the plastic cable guide rails on the bottom of the bb.
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Old 12-26-13, 08:45 AM
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Hey, I'm glad to have helped. You got yourself a sweet frame there... very under-rated. Enjoy building/riding it.
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Old 12-26-13, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post

2. You didn't ask about top swing vs. bottom swing, but it's something to think about. If your seat tube is flared at the bottom, you need a bottom swing. If you have water bottle mounts where a bottom swing derailleur would go, you need a top swing.



If you don't already own the mini Vs, I'd rethink them.
Thanks for the added info about the swing prior to your post I had never heard about it. As for the Mini-V's, the are already on the frame. I am not a fan of cantis so I specifically looked for these. From what I researched most people who changed from the cantis to the mini-v's had nothing but good stuff to say about them. That being said please elaborate as to why you might go with cantis instead.
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Old 12-26-13, 09:17 AM
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@surreal

You wouldn't by chance now the rear wheel spacing on this frame? That was another spec. that I haven't been able to find.
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Old 12-26-13, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mondo734 View Post
Thanks for the added info about the swing prior to your post I had never heard about it. As for the Mini-V's, the are already on the frame. I am not a fan of cantis so I specifically looked for these. From what I researched most people who changed from the cantis to the mini-v's had nothing but good stuff to say about them. That being said please elaborate as to why you might go with cantis instead.
I can't say too much about canty's because I have so very little experience with modern ones. The old style ones will work well once you get them set up but are a major pain to get the pads aligned.

Probably take some hits for this but I don't like mini-v's because they take too much cable pull to really work with road style brake levers. If you're using a long pull lever anyway why not use the full size linear pull brake?
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Old 12-26-13, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mondo734 View Post
@surreal

You wouldn't by chance now the rear wheel spacing on this frame? That was another spec. that I haven't been able to find.
Sometimes 1 measurement is worth 1,000 guesses. My GUESS is 132.5 mm. That's a measurement that several manufacturers used to accept rear wheels of either size.
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Old 12-26-13, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mondo734 View Post
@surreal

You wouldn't by chance now the rear wheel spacing on this frame? That was another spec. that I haven't been able to find.
I'm 90% certain it's spaced at 130mm, for typical road rear hubs....Leastways, they came supplied with 130mm hubs from Jamis.
TBH, I'd be surprised if they did the in-betweener 132.5mm spacing, re-popularized by Surly on the CrossCheck (and popular BITD with 128mm spacing for when the world was moving from 7- to 8-speed), but it is possible.

Found this for ya:
https://www.jamisbikes.com/catalog_ar...IS_CATALOG.pdf p9 for the Nova, p37 for geometry, p39 for build details/specs. No definitive word on the rear spacing, but they did come stock with a Ritchey Aerocomp (roadie) wheelset.

HTH
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Old 12-26-13, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
I can't say too much about canty's because I have so very little experience with modern ones. The old style ones will work well once you get them set up but are a major pain to get the pads aligned.

Probably take some hits for this but I don't like mini-v's because they take too much cable pull to really work with road style brake levers. If you're using a long pull lever anyway why not use the full size linear pull brake?
I am using long pull levers but can't use the full size v-brakes. As I understand it, the wont work as replacements for cantis. The long arms don't allow the brake pads to sit in the right spot to make contact with the wheels brake surface. Again, this is all stuff I found out from research and as such I can't say its 100% accurate either.
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Old 12-26-13, 09:59 AM
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I guess I'll measure it when I put the brake levers on today. I checked out that catalog a while back and that was how I found out the clamp size for the FD. Ya know I am surprised that all that info isn't able to be found in their charts.
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Old 12-26-13, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mondo734 View Post
I guess I'll measure it when I put the brake levers on today. I checked out that catalog a while back and that was how I found out the clamp size for the FD. Ya know I am surprised that all that info isn't able to be found in their charts.
Lots of the measurements on bike frames can vary with production, especially from one model year to the next. Thankfully, there are only 3 or 4 derailer clamp dimensions that are used. They aren't as bad as seatposts.

Your Nova, by the way uses a bottom pull derailer, i.e. the cable is routed under the bottom bracket. The 2013 model uses a top pull where the cable is routed from the top tube. I'd suggest going with a bottom pull (aka high clamp, aka "normal") front derailed. Top swings (aka low clamp) derailers aren't as good at shifting the front derailer as the high clamp version is, in my opinion.

I would also suggest, if you haven't purchased the crank yet, going with an external bottom bracket Shimano crank. They are much simpler to install and work quite well. You can find a Deore 48 tooth crank (FC-M590) with bottom bracket for around $80 on line. A 48 tooth high gear will give you a bit more speed on a road bike than the 44 tooth Alivio would as well.
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Old 12-26-13, 10:56 AM
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Have you considered a compact double? Probably just me, but I despise triples -- mostly useless repetition of gears, finicky shifting and chain rub. Unless you are doing lots of steep trail work AND fast road descents where keeping up with others matters, a double will most likely serve your needs better. Just my opinion.
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Old 12-26-13, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by NatUp View Post
Have you considered a compact double? Probably just me, but I despise triples -- mostly useless repetition of gears, finicky shifting and chain rub. Unless you are doing lots of steep trail work AND fast road descents where keeping up with others matters, a double will most likely serve your needs better. Just my opinion.
I've used triples on bikes since the 1980s. I've had a few bikes with doubles since then as well and I've have never noticed any of the issues that triples are suppose to have. Shifting on my triples has always been quick and precise. Chain rub is nonexistent if you set the bike up properly. And while you have some gear repetition with a triple, you trade a little bit of extra work to set up a triple for a really bad gear selection that requires double or triple shifts to use the nonrepetitive gears of a compact double.
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Old 12-26-13, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NatUp View Post
Have you considered a compact double? Probably just me, but I despise triples -- mostly useless repetition of gears, finicky shifting and chain rub. Unless you are doing lots of steep trail work AND fast road descents where keeping up with others matters, a double will most likely serve your needs better. Just my opinion.
I actually have a cyclocross bike that uses a 46/36 crankset. I like the double for that just fine even when riding in the mountains. The reason for the triple is that I am going to be using this to pull my son in a burley, and my current cross bike just kills me even in the lowest gear when going uphill. The second purpose of this build is to use it as a commuter, something not to expensive but still rides like a road bike. I know many people here own a different bike for everything but that is just not practical for me, though I wish it was.
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Old 12-26-13, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I've used triples on bikes since the 1980s. I've had a few bikes with doubles since then as well and I've have never noticed any of the issues that triples are suppose to have. Shifting on my triples has always been quick and precise. Chain rub is nonexistent if you set the bike up properly. And while you have some gear repetition with a triple, you trade a little bit of extra work to set up a triple for a really bad gear selection that requires double or triple shifts to use the nonrepetitive gears of a compact double.
If it works for you, go for it, I envy you. Maybe I've only encountered inferior componentry, but I've wrenched on several bikes where I simply could not adjust the FD so that shifting was crisp AND there was no chain rub in appropriate gears. IOW: I'd adjust the cable just short enough to allow shifting from middle to big, and then there would be slight rubbing in the small ring and biggest cog. Now, of course, I may totally suck at adjusting gears, but barrel adjusters are not complicated and I have extensive (successful) experience with all sorts of bikes, so my inability to get triples running smoothly has left me frustrated with them.
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Old 12-26-13, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mondo734 View Post
As I understand it, the wont work as replacements for cantis. The long arms don't allow the brake pads to sit in the right spot to make contact with the wheels brake surface.
I don't understand that comment. I can't tell you how many bikes I've converted from canty to linear pull brakes but it's a bunch.
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Old 12-26-13, 11:39 AM
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I hear you, sounds like you are looking for a real stump-puller. I've had good success with a build I did just for a hilly tour with a 48/34 compact and a nice big 11-34 cassette. The 1:1 low gear was plenty for anything I threw at it. But I wasn't pulling a Burley, so I can't say what would work for you. Basically, if you are willing to sacrifice a skosh of top end (which this bike's purpose says you are) there's really no (practical) limit to how low you could go with a double.

Can't wait to see pics when it's finished. Sounds like a fun, capable bike.
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