Sixty Fiver

It is what I do... right down to the custom brazing and machining of the hubs we build into wheels.

I like the self sufficiency and when I started riding my bike my dad said if you rode it or drove it, you needed to be able to take care of it yourself.

I am also pretty good with horses.

Dave Cutter

I always heard it as: If you can't fix it... you don't really own it (meaning you're really just renting it from the repairman).

Sixty Fiver

People are often amazed when they find that their friendly neighbourhood bicycle repairman can handle most automotive work and drive pretty much anything on wheels... I spent such a long time being car free that some folks have yet to see me drive.

rekmeyata

Exactly! I only buy tools as their needed, this includes when I work on my cars or home repairs. Never ever buy a tool set, like Bikeman said you'll get tools you never use, plus you'll get tools you might already have.

Amesja

I get pretty sick of having to run out in a panic to buy a tool for every job. Tools can be EXPENSIVE and when you buy them from the local hardware store or LBS they cost twice or more what they cost if you do some research and shop around -especially online. Also, the tools that are stocked in a typical hardware store or LBS are sometimes the "home" type of tool and not the pro versions. To get the better shop tool sometimes you need to really know that there is a difference and where to find the better tools. A lot of LBS mechanics aren't going to let you in on the "secrets" and much of the time they hardly know themselves.

I'm a tradesman and I'd hardly want to buy many of my work tools from a hardware store. Home Depot now carries a pretty good line of Klein tools and other pro-level electrical tools but that wasn't the case not too many years ago. One really needs to do some research before just going out and buying a tool IMHO. I hate having to do this in the heat of battle. I want to be prepared, and I don't want to have the item that needs to be prepared down for an extended period of time while the proper tool is sourced. I also don't like buying a tool at retail only to find that it is not up to the task or a life-long tool and need to end up replacing it down the road. There is a whole drawer full of junky consumer-grade low-end tools that are like the land of misfit toys.

Zinn has a whole section on tools and what tools to have. He has the tools sorted into "levels" and grades them from the basic level-1 home repair kit that every bike owner should have at home (above and beyond what they carry on the bike) to level-3 and beyond to what he calls the very well stocked shop.

In the Glenn's book he does something similar but it is handy to compare and contrast the two tool lists depending on how old of a bike you are riding.

If you are into riding for the long term you might as well get into wrenching for the long term too. Don't buy cheesy tools that you will regret buying later. The best way to avoid this is to not buy them at the last second when it becomes an emergency and you NEED to buy them...

/end rant.

Dave Cutter

Since I found I enjoy spending part of my off-season time wrenching..... I've gone from having a bike and a back-up bike.... to two bikes and a winter bike... to a small collection of bicycles.

Now I've decided to put one of my bicycles up for sale (I just changed out the saddle) when the weather warms. Then.... I'll use that "bicycle money" to find another project bike. My son recently added powder coating capabilities to his garage..... and I've never painted a bicycle before. It could be the beautiful bicycles are the ones we build in our minds..... while waiting for spring.

Amesja

Once you start buying & selling bikes, and bike parts, you'll soon notice that the hobby starts to pay for itself. You won't make a ton of money flipping bikes, but if you use your head and learn as you go you will be able to keep your head above water in the long run and be able to collect a pretty nice higher-end stable of bikes off of the "spoils."

I used to be ahead even with the buying of a lot of tools although lately I've sort of blown that with a few high-dollar purchases. But really I am not any further than a single high-end bike behind and I have 3-4 really nice bikes -some that could be considered high-end, and a really nicely-equipped shop to boot and a garage full of parts and bikes I really need to get cracking on selling this spring when it starts to warm up.

If I got my butt in gear and sold all the bikes and bike stuff in my garage and the extra groupsets I've got in my shop and a few other bits like wheels and odd parts I'd probably net about $3k and be well above the break-even point. That's all my nice personal bikes + tools left over to keep plus a little spending cash after a few years worth of work.

bkaapcke

This is right on the money. Derailleur setup/adjustment seems like voodoo at first, but once you work through it you'll be there. bk

Dave Cutter

You've read my mind and caught-on to my hope. I am retired and have plenty of extra time. And... because I am married I keep my hobbies within my "pocket money". I think a little flipping here and there would expand both my enjoyment.... and my available spending/hobby money.

Amesja

It's just a matter of DOing and learning how it is done.

Nothing about workign on bikes is nearly as hard as playing a guitar or the piano -and lots of folks seem to be able to just pick that up by noodling around with those instruments and teaching themselves by trial and error.

Bikes are WAAAAAAAAAAY more simple than that, and you can go as slow as you like and still come out with craftsmanlike results. Anyone can learn to wrench. I could teach it to a monkey if only it wanted to learn and kept trying.

Amesja

Flipping and parting out bikes is the cheapest and easiest way to acquire nice working groupsets and individual components you are looking for to build up projects -much cheaper than buying those parts used individually on CL. They might not be matching, but you can put together a really nice-working high-end frankenbike with parts harvested off of CL buys. If you are willing to buy bikes that are broken, so far out of tune that the PO gave up on getting it to ever work again, and crash-damaged frames you can pick up great parts at a real discount and part them back out. Of course you need to know a few things about what things are worth and what is good and what is damaged too.

I used to love building up bikes and selling beautifully-crafted and restored used bikes on CL but I came to the awful realization that buying parts and putting them together into whole bikes to sell was a losing proposition. Parts ALWAYS sell for more than a whole bike -always. At least around here in Chicago. Never sell a whole bike unless you are selling it to a friend or someone who really is going to enjoy and appreciate it. Otherwise you are just giving away money and your time. You are giving it away either way, but at least for a friend/relative/acquaintance you know it is someone who deserves and/or appreciates what you are doing.

Otherwise just strip down everything and sell as individual parts. There are always folks buying parts to upgrade their bikes or build up projects. Even low-end parts like Sora and Alevio will sell to folks building winter beaters and starter bikes.

Sixty Fiver

You seem to hold a pretty low opinion of the wrench monkeys at the LBS...

Expect that for one to become proficient you need to put in the time and hours and study to get really good at anything and there is a reason people pay me to do what I do because not everyone has the aptitude for it.

I don't tell people that working on bicycles is easy because that is relative and what comes easily for me might be really difficult for others.

Dave Cutter

I bought a nice old Fuji mountain bike for a winter bicycle. It was filthy! But otherwise in almost like new shape... except the tires had rotted. After I replaced the tires and tubes with new ones and experienced cycling in snow (for the first time). I started thinking about making some DIY studded tires on their own rims. That's when I realized.... I could buy a working CL mountain bike with stud-able tires and useable rims.... for less than what I had paid for the original new tires alone.

You have a good point about parts and prices.

Dave Cutter

LOL.

At age fifty+ I assumed a [computer] technical position because it needed to be filled immediately. I had been a computer hobbyist for a couple decades. Although I found it easy and even somewhat boring.... I learned that wasn't a universal reaction.

After making that same comment about "training a monkey to do this work" to my employer.... I quickly learned I had GREATLY over estimated the learning abilities of the average primate (and boss).

Our brains don't all work the same ways. I think it might be a survival thing.... that forces humans to live in social groups.

Amesja

Wrenching on bikes is simple compared to most other types of work out there. It is easy to learn and most tasks, even at a bike shop, can be done by low-dollar help with very little training or supervision after a simple and short orientation/training programe. We are talking weeks, not months, and certainly not years.

The pay of a bike mechanic is propenserate to the difficulty involved, the amount of hard labor and skill required to do the bulk of the tasks required of a bikeshop mechanic is really no more than for your average fast-food worker. I'm sorry, but that is just the facts as I see them.

Sure there are some more difficult bike-wrenching jobs, and a low-skilled mechanic can really mess up a bike if a poor shop manager doesn't do a good job assigning skill-appropriate tasks. But for the most part many of the "difficult" tasks are knowing how to use the more expensive tools without damaging the tools themselves. Having the tools makes all the difference in the world. They don't take all that long to learn how to use.

A typical bikeshop mechanic position is a lower-skilled job than any of the skilled trades in construction and repair -especially at the commercial/industrial level. It's also a much less physical job than those as well. A shop mechanic need only be able to stand up for his shift -similar to the exertion of that of a fast food worker.

It's a lower-skilled job than a barber or even a dog hair-cutter. It's a lower-skilled job than any of the auto and industrial machinery mechanics. It's a lower-skilled job than most any other "mechanical" jobs where one has to work with their hands in a professional/technical setting. About the only "tech" jobs that are lower-skilled than a basic shop mechanic are the guys who work on computers at the retail repair level such as the guys at geek squad who simply plug in and install network, video, audio, and other "computer slot" cards and install computer CPU's, memory and cooling fans at the simple "install-donk" grade.

And like I said before, if you look at how much these jobs PAY those working in them then this is pretty much born out by the salary they earn.

Bicycles are getting slightly more technical with hydraulic disc brakes and higher-end electronics -but the technology always tends to level off and make these things simpler for the wrench in the end as it matures.

mconlonx

Respectfully, f' you and your view of bike mechanics. It is not informed.

seedsbelize 

The thing about horses is that they never fail to start, no matter what the weather.

Amesja

Respectfully, you didn't enlighten me any more on the attitude of many bike mechanics here either. It's well known and a reason why a lot of us don't WANT to be beholden to shop wrenches and would rather not darken the doorstep of their LBS if they can help it.

I'm sorry if the truth upsets you very much. But many shop mechanics are no more skilled than your average fast-food worker, and possess similar attitudes toward their customers.

I'm not saying that there are no really skilled bike mechanics out there, artists and masters in their chosen trade who rise up head & shoulders above their peers. Some of them are even on this board. Folks like Sixty-Fiver and others like him have shown time and time again on this site that their knowledge is both extremely deep and wide.

But what I'm saying is that to do the job at a typical LBS, and to earn that near-minimum wage salary many shop mechanics get, it doesn't really take a rocket surgeon to get the job done. Anyone with at least one opposable thumb, and an IQ that doesn't scrape down deep into the bottom half of the lower quartile of human intelligence, can work on their own bikes too.

bikeman715

There more to the job other than a paycheck , to some of us it the love of the bike and knowing the working of it . Some of us take it to the next level such as frame repairs , frame making and knowing you have done something with your hands . I know I working as a mechanic , shop manager , & shop owner , I put my four kids thou college by doing bicycles repairs for 30 years . You Sir haven't been to the right shop or talk to a real mechanic who know where I been .

mconlonx

You made a rather broad generalization and didn't expect push back? Your post was rude and disparaging, I replied in kind.

And now, you qualify and backpedal regarding your previous post.

Do we really need to get into all those situations where "Anyone with at least one opposable thumb, and an IQ that doesn't scrape down deep into the bottom half of the lower quartile of human intelligence, can work on their own bikes too" sheepishly bring their bikes into the shop, with a disclaimer, "I tried work on my bike, but..."

Or those mechanics you disparaged who give away pro advice on this forum for free?

How many bikes have you worked on? How deep is your knowledge? Ever had to rebuild a Fox fork and then move on to tune a rusty bike with shaky Shimano Tourney equipment for someone who can't afford replacement parts? Do you have the tools and knowledge to bleed 5 different brands of hydraulic brakes? Are you fully up to date on Shimano Di2 tech? How many BB systems have you worked with? How may different headset combos have you had to deal with? Can you jump from rebuilding a Campy shifter to tensioning a belt drive correctly? IGH: do you have experience rebuilding a vintage SA 3p hub? Or even know what to look for which might be wrong? Servicing an Alfine hub? Do you deal with tubelss tire systems?

Again, your view on current bike mechanic tech is woefully uninformed.

Amesja

Pretty much yes to all of that stuff. And I've got the tools to bleed just about every type of hydraulic brake, bicycle, automotive, and motorcycle. I can even service & rebuild real shocks and suspension forks -not just the spindly toys they are still putting on bicycles these days.

Bicycles are NOT that hard to work on. They are simple machines. None of the stuff you mentioned is much harder than operating the french fry machine at McDonalds. If you have the special tool it's just knowing which end to hold.

When bike mechanics need to complete a 5+ year apprenticeship and then test out with a state board certification while afterwards taking and documenting education hours to maintain their credentials then get back to me. Until then, the fry machine is beeping and there is a car at the drive-thru.

mconlonx

Have you ever worked in a bike shop as a mechanic?

Amesja

I could never afford the 80% pay cut.

mconlonx

I afforded a 60% pay cut to work as a conscientious mechanic. Some people think right living is more important than income.

"[P]ropenserate" is not a word.

How many of the people you are informing here can afford $600 of cheap, now unavailable frame prep tools, for maybe a $60 service invoice? How many would need such in a lifetime?

Amesja

Commensurate

Sue me. My lawyers are standing by.