Howdy

I've got a fairly new 2 ring 10 speed with a front derailleur that won't adjust on the outside. The inside screw moves the derailleur in its range, but the outside screw as no effect when twisted all the way in or out. Bike has an inline cable tensioner for the front derailleur that works, but seems to have some kind of malfunction.

In searching for the problem, I found a couple other threads where cable tension was the culprit. So I loosened the inline tensioner a bit and went back to the inside cogs and checked for cable tension- sure enough, it was pretty loose. So I happily whistled a tune as I adjusted the cable and got it nice and snug.. and, adjusting my inline cable tensioner, observed the derailleur in basically perfect position.

Verifying my fix had given it what it needed to work properly, I attempted to bring it in (toward the chain), running through the adjustment procedure as I know it...... nothing. Still no movement at all. Attempted to adjust out, screwing the other way... back the screw out until the head was a couple MM off the derailleur- absolutely no movement. Then, running it through the range of gears again, I noticed it rubs pretty decently on the outside when crossing from smallest ring to largest cog... so I think even though I got everything lined up via cable tension, the derailleur itself still needs adjustment.

What's next? Sledge hammer?

-Ben

I just move the shift lever with my hand .. I love friction shifted derailleurs, particularly the Front one .

you have 2 stroke limit screws that stops the swing from going too far inside or out..

you can adjust that without the cable even attached ..


Of course I cannot supervise your work .. have someone to show it to?

The limit screws are what I'm adjusting.. the outside won't adjust

It's 105... index, not friction

Not really sure what you're saying

Go to a bike shop , I cant help, blind, from a typewriter .. you may have screwed your the FD

and have to buy a new one ..., I am not clairvoyant...

The (H) screw is the one need to be adjusted , it allow the derailleur to move to and be on the big chainring . Try remove the cable again and push on the derailleur to see if it move on it own . If it does then there a problem with the cable and housing . If it doesn't then the problem is with the derailleur . Try cleaning and lubing it and see if it help . https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...ur-adjustments

It sounds as if you are not understanding a key principle of derailleur operation. The high limit screw serves only to stop the outward movement of the derailleur cage. If the cable is not pulling the cage outward you can adjust the outer limit screw until the cows come home and not see anything moving. Please follow this procedure from beginning to end without skipping any steps; remove the shift wire and proceed as if you were installing it from scratch.

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...ur-adjustments

Without going to the linked sites I'll add my $.02. If you not use the shift levers to work the der during it's adjusting process you'll learn the separation between the der's movements and the shift levers control of the cable.

Meaning- do all the der positioning, limit screw adjusting with pulling on the cable midway between the frame casing stop and the BB shell guide. This way you end up with a der that works independent of the shift lever's part of the system. Then go back and start to use the shift lever and establish the cable tension that allows the lever to move the der through the previously established function.

The inability to look past what the lever does and see what the der needs is a common challenge for inexperienced wrenches. By separating these two aspects of the system the understanding gets better faster. Andy.

PS- And if the bike has internal cable routing then it sucks to be you . Really (and not a joke) with internal cable routing every thing about der work gets a lot more involved and needing to be spot on/perfectly performing. This is when one should consider letting a pro do the work.

STOP

Your FD is likely fine, but you clearly have no idea of what you're doing. (Sorry, but IMO a harsh truth is better than letting you blunder until you damage the FD).

Read or watch a few tutorials on adjusting front derailleurs until you have a good sense of what's involved. Limits don't do anything except (as the name implies) set the outer range of motion, It's the cable and spring that move it.

BTW- the same rules apply to rear derailleurs, but the consequences of uninformed adjusting can be much more serious, so don't make adjustments until you understand the implications.

Looks like I was just going a bit out of sequence.. got it all figured out. Derailleurs perfect

It's really not that hard... but you definitely have to be super cognizant of what you're doing and not miss something small but critical- like moving the cassette also, when going to high gearing.

Thanks for the link, bike and dsb.

I don't really understand the inline adjuster though. Firstly, I don't think it works right. When I spin it, it just spins freely, along with the section of housing that takes it into the shifter. I have to grab the shifter section and hold it really tight while twisting the barrel to get it to adjust. But what's it for? Just ease of being able to tighten the cable without having to get off the bike and get your tool out when you get some rub?

The inline adjuster will spin as a unit (as you now know). You have to hold one end and turn the other so it screws or unscrews, making the adjuster shorter or longer.

BTW- don't take this wrong, you're confirming a lack of fundamental understanding. Please review some tutorials rather than shooting in the dark.

If I had a solid understanding, I wouldn't be here on an internet forum asking condescending ******* strangers stupid ******' questions.

However, I suspect my understanding isn't quite so fundamentally lacking. You have a shifter that's got some preset tension levels built into it and a cable that runs from it to your front derailleur. The derailleur itself has spring tension built into it, so the cable tension only pulls it in one direction. When tension is loosened, the deraileur goes the other direction under spring tension. The two adjustment screws limit the amount of play to the inside and outside.... left for inside, right for outside. This keeps the derailleur from throwing your chain off the rings and fine-tune position. Based on what you've just said, I'm going to assume the inline tensioner does exactly what I surmised it does- just allows you to adjust tension without having to get out a hex and retighten your cable at the derailleur.

My lack of understanding is why the inline adjuster is even necessary t begin with? Seems like it's CAUSING more cable slop than it's fixing. Have to adjust it damn near every day.... hence my statement that it seems to have some kind of malfucntion.

But otherwise, there just doesn't seem to be all that much to this stuff that an afternoon of youtube videos and a couple of attempts can't teach you.

The B- You're right that for many people learning to adjust their bike (front der in our case) takes only some basic instruction and then the trial/error/practice loop a few times. for others it can be a frustrating chase for understandings that seem to never make themselves known. I've taught dozens of budding wrenches (both for professional work as well as their own home needs) and have seen a very wide ability to learn and understand both the basic principles as well as the finer points. As you are well aware of, it's real hard to know where some one is when only communicating with written word.

The description of what/how a front der works is pretty good but does miss some of the fine points like cage shape (cage curvature, interior width, contouring of the plates) and, of course, that there are other movement designs out there then the parallelogram based one. But for the der that you've been dealing with the description is close enough.

Your description on what a cable tension adjuster does is a bit lacking. Since an indexed shift lever can't change the der's position (called trimming usually) (because of the lever's predetermined cable movement points) being able to position the cage with fine tuning cable tension is very much needed. But you say that you have to, almost, daily use the cable adjuster to maintain proper der adjustment. (Did i read that right?) If so then there's something else going on. It's only when there is some reason causing the cable tension continue to change where one would need to continually adjust the tension.

Some causes are a cable that is slipping under the anchor bolt, casing or it's end caps that are changing in length (caps not fully pushed onto the casing), a frame stop is moving along the tube, the casing's support wires are pushing through the casing caps (very common), the inner cable is beginning to fray, the der is slipping down (or up depending on the cable entry direction) the frame tube, the inner cable has so much friction that one isn't able to fully tension it on installation. There are more reasons to have a cable change it's tension but these are the biggies.

So if you're frequently needing to adjust the cable's tension to maintain the der's adjustment, by using the cable adjuster, look for more going on then you have already. As you previously mentioned, proper use of the adjuster is needed to have it actually achieve the goal. I find that if the adjuster is taken apart and the threads are lubed with a dab of grease it makes for easier future function.

As to some here seeming to be condescending- Yes some can be, myself included. But for most of us our first and second replies are pretty straight and informative. I admit that by the time I've offered instruction/information/advice a third time (that often is just saying most of the same with different phrasing) and the person still doesn't get it it's tempting to conclude that this medium is not the one that the person needs to fully comprehend the issue. BTW this is why i usually self limit my replies to three per thread. Unless the topic and discussion is really positive and roving I get tired of trying to explain the same thing in more and more different ways.

So this is #2 for me in this thread. Andy.

I've posted helpful answers for thousands of people here on Bike Forums, including some very long and detailed explanations of particular points.

My responses to you weren't condescending, but intended to tell you that your piecemeal approach is as likely to miss important stuff, and have you continually coming back.

I didn't say you lacked a "solid" understanding, but lacked a foundation.

Feel free to be insulted, if that's the way you feel. However, it doesn't make sense to keep asking ask folks to reinvent the wheel by typing individual answers to questions when the information is there for the reading. I suggested that you invest the time to learn the basics, then come back if there were other sticking points.

You refuse to do that, which is your choice, but I for one won't waste any more time trying to help you if you won't invest any to help yourself.

You cant teach someone who aleady knows it all. First, you have to open their mind. MHO

It's cool... if you have to ask questions on the internet, you have to take what's given to you. Gun forums, bike forums, skiing forums, climbing forums. Totally expect it.

Yes- the tensioner needs to be tensioned every day. Since nothing else is changing (cable bolt is tight, and the cable isn't moving), I think the tensioner itself is simply loosening up. I've read where guys will put loctite on the threads to prevent this, I guess maybe I should give that a try

Is it possible that when you twist the tensioner barrel, the cable doesn't stay still, but twists as well. Over time it may unwind putting you back where you started. I have had this happen with rusted ferrules in brake lines.

It will be a simple test to see if the inline adjuster is turning by its self and therefore changing cable tension. Adjust the tension and measure the adjuster's total length. Then when the cable needs the next adjustment see if the adjuster changed it's length.

Another possibility is that when turning the adjuster the casing end cap might need to be pulled out of the seat (of the adjuster) and the tension increase of the adjustment alone won't pull the casing cap back in the adjuster's seat. The next shift or two would though.

Now i'll sit back and see what happens with this thread. I do like it when the Op finds the solution and they post it. Andy.

This is a fun thread