Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Derailleur Mess-Wish to Untangle

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Derailleur Mess-Wish to Untangle

Old 03-10-14, 09:04 PM
  #1  
BROOKLINEBIKER
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Derailleur Mess-Wish to Untangle

Hi everyone,
I am hoping some of you can help me untangle a situation I find confusing. I own a 2004 K2 Zed Sport, a light mountain bike. I bought the bike new from my local REI. Here is a link to the specifications: 2004 K2 Zed Sport - BikePedia. The bike has historically had a lot of trouble with smooth shifting. I have spent a lot of money on bike mechanics trying to get the issues resolved over the years. I recently DIY installed a new 7 speed chain & 7 speed cassette. (I am trying to learn basic bike repair). After the installation, I brought the bike back to REI for some tweaks. (They are my LBS most of the time). I was told tonight by the mechanic that my bike as currently configured will not shift properly. I was told that I installed a 7 speed cassette with a 10 speed derailleur and that the derailleur was worn out in any event. The derailleur is Deore and original. I have a 7 speed grip and twist shifter on the front handlebar. It is also original. The specifications I cite above reference 7 speed rear cogs and a Shimano Altus rear derailleur. Here are a few questions:
1) What should I install for a derailleur? I would like something of good quality for less than $30.
2) Do I keep my 7 speed cassette and matching chain?
3) Was I given mismatched components somewhere along the way?
Thanks!
BROOKLINEBIKER is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 03:02 AM
  #2  
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 7,841

Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Seems like the guy in the shop misidentified your RD. Maybe you should post a pic of it so we can make sure, but if it's old enough to be worn out it's unlikely to be 10s. But then if it's worn, it's toast anyway. Grab the bottom of the cage and wiggle it laterally. If you see a lot of movement, particularly at the upper pivot where the RD is bolted to the frame, it's shagged - but 7s is pretty fault-tolerant.

But why is the RD Deore and not Altus? Upgrade by the shop? Deore is pretty snazzy on a $250 bike...

The only way you'll find a good quality replacement for <$30 is second hand. Quality rear derailers start around $45-$60.

The 7s cassette and chain should be fine. The cassette screwed up nice and tight, right?

If you have worn shifters, that could be a big contributor to your woes. One or both might even be broken. Or maybe they could just use some lube. Bears investigation.
Kimmo is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 07:26 AM
  #3  
BROOKLINEBIKER
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi Kimmo,
Thanks for your thoughtful answer. Would
a Shimano RD-M280 Altus Rear Derailleur (Black, SGS Long Cage 7/8 Speed) work on my bike? Is it a durable device?
Thanks!
BROOKLINEBIKER is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 07:51 AM
  #4  
Wilfred Laurier
Señor Member
 
Wilfred Laurier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,222
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by BROOKLINEBIKER View Post
Hi Kimmo,
Thanks for your thoughtful answer. Would
a Shimano RD-M280 Altus Rear Derailleur (Black, SGS Long Cage 7/8 Speed) work on my bike? Is it a durable device?
Thanks!
an altus rear d will work fine with seven speed and should hold up fine
Wilfred Laurier is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 08:49 AM
  #5  
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 7,841

Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
It won't last as long as a better one, but you should get a few years out of it.
Kimmo is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 09:56 AM
  #6  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,580

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BROOKLINEBIKER, Be sure to keep the rear derailleur that is being replaced as I agree thatif it's a 10S RD it's too new to be worn out. FYI, only nine speed and less mountain bike rear derailleurs are compatible with your shifters, the 10S RDs use a different pull ratio. The Altus will likely last as long as you keep your bike.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 09:58 AM
  #7  
BROOKLINEBIKER
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks again for your responses. Are there special tools needed for installing a rear derailleur? Should I plan on getting any parts for the job besides the derailleur? Eg I am thinking maybe some extra shifter cables bec lengths may change?
BROOKLINEBIKER is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 10:00 AM
  #8  
Wilfred Laurier
Señor Member
 
Wilfred Laurier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,222
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 31 Posts
metric allen keys and a 9 mm wrench should be all you need

forgot about the chain

chain must be routed through the derailleur
you can either break the chain to route it through
then reconnect it using a quick link or new pin
depending on the brand of chain

or you can partially disassemble the derailleur cage
by removing the two bolts that serve as axles for the jockey wheels


disconnecting the chain is by far the easier way to do it
but you may need a chain tool if your chain does not already have a quick link
then you need a chaintool

Last edited by Wilfred Laurier; 03-11-14 at 10:07 AM.
Wilfred Laurier is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 10:25 AM
  #9  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,270

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1149 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Whenever I encounter a rear shifting issue that doesn't respond to normal tuneing the first thing that I do is to check the derailleur hanger alignment. MOST of the time, that fixes it.

Before spending any money on parts, try this:
1. Shift into a gear combination that makes your derailleur arm point straight down.
2. Prop your bike up against something so that it's vertical.
3. Now look at your derailleur from behind the bike. If the derailleur arm seems to be pointing toward your back tire, that's it.

With 7-speed I can usually bend the derailleur and hanger back with my hands accurately enough to get the indexing to work reliably again. With 8 or 9-speed I generally have to use my gauge. Average or better bike shops will have such a gauge. My guess is a shop will charge you around $15.00 or $20.00 to gauge and realign the hanger.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 10:52 AM
  #10  
gsa103
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,166

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito (Celeste, of course)

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 629 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BROOKLINEBIKER View Post
I was told that I installed a 7 speed cassette with a 10 speed derailleur and that the derailleur was worn out in any event. The derailleur is Deore and original. I have a 7 speed grip and twist shifter on the front handlebar. It is also original.
Deore comes in both 9-speed and 10-speed variants. The 10-speed would be the newer version, if its original I suspect you have a 9-speed Deore derailleur.
gsa103 is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 11:23 AM
  #11  
FastJake
Constant tinkerer
 
FastJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you aren't going to fix this yourself, you need to find a better shop. Any shop that cannot get 7-speed rear shifting to work is WORTHLESS.

Things to do, in this order:
- Check RD hanger alignment
- Check proper cable adjustment and limit screw adjustment.
- Check RD for excessive wear/bent cage.
- Replace shifter cable and all pieces of housing, making sure they are cleanly cut and cut at the proper length.
FastJake is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 02:37 PM
  #12  
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,774
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
shimano rear dr. are usually backward compatible until you get to the newest 10 and 11 speed units. The shifter is what makes the system 7,8,9, or 10 speed. Fast Jake has given you good advice. You may want to look here for good info.:Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog
davidad is offline  
Old 03-11-14, 09:49 PM
  #13  
BROOKLINEBIKER
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the above advice. As far as I can tell the derailleur seems properly aligned and there is some play in the rear derailleurso I am looking to buy an Altus derailleur. Before buying, should I be seeking a direct mount or regular mount rear derailleur for my K2 Zed?
BROOKLINEBIKER is offline  
Old 03-12-14, 11:56 AM
  #14  
AnkleWork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Llano Estacado
Posts: 3,305

Bikes: old clunker

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by BROOKLINEBIKER View Post
. . . Before buying, should I be seeking a direct mount or regular mount rear derailleur for my K2 Zed?
Which type do you have now?

BTW, most derailleurs have some play, even when new.
AnkleWork is offline  
Old 03-12-14, 12:08 PM
  #15  
BROOKLINEBIKER
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Which type do you have now?

BTW, most derailleurs have some play, even when new.
Hi the derailleur is an older Deore, possibly a decade old. How does one tell them apart?
BROOKLINEBIKER is offline  
Old 03-12-14, 04:57 PM
  #16  
FastJake
Constant tinkerer
 
FastJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BROOKLINEBIKER View Post
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the above advice. As far as I can tell the derailleur seems properly aligned and there is some play in the rear derailleurso I am looking to buy an Altus derailleur. Before buying, should I be seeking a direct mount or regular mount rear derailleur for my K2 Zed?
I wasn't aware there was such a thing as a direct mount rear derailer. That's another name for a braze-on front derailer, and I suspect they changed the name to "direct mount" because now with aluminum/carbon frames the tab is not brazed on, it's glued or screwed.

Send us a link to what you're looking to buy, or one that looks similar.
FastJake is offline  
Old 03-12-14, 07:43 PM
  #17  
BROOKLINEBIKER
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
I wasn't aware there was such a thing as a direct mount rear derailer. That's another name for a braze-on front derailer, and I suspect they changed the name to "direct mount" because now with aluminum/carbon frames the tab is not brazed on, it's glued or screwed.

Send us a link to what you're looking to buy, or one that looks similar.
Hi FastJake,
Thanks for helping out here. I am providing 2 links - A) a conventional long cage derailleur and B) a direct mount rear derailleur.
A) Amazon.com: Shimano RD-M280 Altus Rear Derailleur (Black, SGS Long Cage 7/8 Speed): Sports & Outdoors
B) Amazon.com: Shimano RD-M310 Altus 7/8-Speed Rear Derailleur, Silver: Sports & Outdoors

I assume the conventional derailleur is the right choice and wish to confirm that the direct mount derailleur is the wrong choice. Of course, if both will work, is there an advantage of one over the other?
BROOKLINEBIKER is offline  
Old 03-12-14, 09:27 PM
  #18  
FastJake
Constant tinkerer
 
FastJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't know why Amazon is calling it a direct mount, but just get that one. Either will work, but the "direct mount" one is less chunky.
FastJake is offline  
Old 03-12-14, 09:30 PM
  #19  
AnkleWork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Llano Estacado
Posts: 3,305

Bikes: old clunker

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by BROOKLINEBIKER View Post
. . . I assume the conventional derailleur is the right choice and wish to confirm that the direct mount derailleur is the wrong choice. Of course, if both will work, is there an advantage of one over the other?
You can't just look at what you have? That's weird.
AnkleWork is offline  
Old 03-13-14, 04:48 AM
  #20  
BROOKLINEBIKER
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
You can't just look at what you have? That's weird.
Hi AnkleWork,
Just to clarify, I am new to bike repairs and learning my way around. I do not want to waste money on ordering the wrong parts. The direct mount derailleurs and the conventional derailleurs both look like they could fit. Physically, the parts look identical to me. Thus, I am asking which one is the right one to get or are both ok?
BROOKLINEBIKER is offline  
Old 03-13-14, 04:59 AM
  #21  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,270

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1149 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by BROOKLINEBIKER View Post
Hi AnkleWork,
Just to clarify, I am new to bike repairs and learning my way around. I do not want to waste money on ordering the wrong parts. The direct mount derailleurs and the conventional derailleurs both look like they could fit. Physically, the parts look identical to me. Thus, I am asking which one is the right one to get or are both ok?
As the name suggests, the difference is in how the derailleurs attach to the frame.

Better quality frames have a little "finger" that extends down from the dropout area that the derailleur bolts onto.
Cheaper frames need a derailleur with a "claw" that is held on by the rear axle nut.

Once you know what to look for, the difference is obvious.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
vwchad
Pacific Northwest
5
07-13-14 10:54 PM
DnvrFox
Fifty Plus (50+)
12
06-19-14 01:20 AM
PhotoJoe
Southern California
7
08-31-13 09:27 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.