Improperly seated tire causes rim failure?
 

I recently replaced a tube on my rear wheel and while re-inflating, the entire circumference of the rim bent outward on one side. I was inflating to 105psi on standard road tires and wheels. The wheel is only 8 months old so I contacted the manufacturer about a warranty replacement. I take great care not to go over any unnecessary bumps and keep my bike well maintained and clean, so I was very disgruntled to have them reply that it is not a defect in the product but in mounting the tire. They claim that this can happen from an improperly seated tire. However, I was sure that both tire beads were within the rim before inflating and the tire did not blow off or pinch the tube so I am confused as to how this can be possible. To me, the beads seem rigid enough that the user does not have much control over exactly where they sit in the rim once the tire is installed. I have replaced many tubes over the years following the same procedure and have never had a problem.

Is this a legitimate claim by the manufacturer or just trying to get out of a warranty replacement?

What rim is this?

A photo would help, as would knowing the width of the tire and rim.

Your problem could be caused by "hoop stress" -- the outward force of the inflated tire. Hoop stress is equal to the pressure X the tire width. Also, brake track wear could have thinned the wall making it weaker.

Other factors could be damage caused by the mounting process, or road damage.

I provided the above info just to list possibilities, but short of specific details and, hopefully photos showing th damage, it's impossible to form any kind of opinion.

Not knowing all the details, it sounds like you may have rim brakes or/and you did a lot of miles on the wheel or/and rim surface and brake pads were contaminated a lot. If this is a case, your rim braking surface may be wore out, making side of the rim very weak /less material/. When you add 105psi, all this pressure pushed on the weak rim creating the damage....but again...if, if, if

rim new or has the brake pads worn it thin? oh mystery troll with a question.

are there 2 more before we can cross the bridge? :rolleyes:

Hey Einstein. There is many of us who can do 10k in 8 months. Some folks are also Clydesdales so it also may wear off rim quickly.
We are still waiting for more details. At least my comment have some value.

Humor challenges some .. was thinking of a scene from one of those movies .. the Holy Grail.

you know, the one with the Trojan Rabbit .

Got it.

To my best guess the wheel has about 500-700 miles on it. I only use it as a commuter 3 miles per day 5-7 days per week. I know the picture is not very helpful, but its the best angle of the problem I could capture. You can see where the reflection changes is where it is bent and that continues the whole way around. I'd estimate it bent outward 3-5mm.

The wheels were purchased from BikeIsland http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_S...ls&ProdID=1917
I know they are not great wheels, but even the wheels on my super cheap Target bikes lasted longer than this.

And yes, they are rim brakes and the tires are Gatorskins (if that makes any difference).

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=369382

OK, given the mileage and the photo It's fairly safe to rule out brake track wear. However it's hard to tell from the photo, and a stone embedded in the brake shoe could have cut a groove, considerably weakening the rim. If there's an external groove at the crack that's the likely cause.

Otherwise, we now come to the issue of side stress caused by the tire, and my question about the tire width.

Since the hoop stress on the rim is based on width and pressure, 105 is meaningless with knowing the width. If this is a narrow rim, where the maker expected you to mount tires in the 25-28mm range (hypothetical example) and you mounted a 2" tire and took it up to 150, it's easy to see how the flange could be over stressed.

I gather you didn't buy from a dealer, so have no way go enlist his help on a possible warranty claim (no groove, narrow tire). You might ask someone with some expertise and credibility to look at it and offer an opinion, and use that to resolve with the maker.

Otherwise, you may have recourse through local small claims court.

But, before calling it a defect, you have to eliminate the two scenearios I described.

Pic is not much help, but looks like the braking surface have some heavy wear for that little milage. Take a pic from the top, that may help to show the damage little better.
Either way, if it's under warranty, and there is no obvious mechanical damage or obvious neglect, they should replace it.
Sadly it's much easier to say 1 year warranty, than to keep that promise.

the Gatorskins are 28mm and have been used for about 7 months. The original no-name tires were 25mm.

They told me that while they thought it sounded like user error, I could send it in for them to examine...not sure if its worth $30 to get a box and ship it vs just buying another one.

Your post is self contradictory. If there's serious brake wear or a groove, then it's not a warranty issue at all. Warranties are about defects not wear.

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by lopek77 http://www.bikeforums.net/images/but...post-right.png
Pic is not much help, but looks like the braking surface have some heavy wear for that little milage. Take a pic from the top, that may help to show the damage little better.
Either way, if it's under warranty, and there is no obvious mechanical damage or obvious neglect, they should replace it.
Sadly it's much easier to say 1 year warranty, than to keep that promise.



Your post is self contradictory. If there's serious brake wear or a groove, then it's not a warranty issue at all. Warranties are about defects not wear [QUOTE]

2 ideas/opinions in one post? Is it highly Illegal or just plain wrong?

The ad specified by the OP indicates that the wheels come with 700c-25mm tires so I'm a little surprised that the OP is using a different tire when the total mileage is less than 700 miles. But assuming the stated mileage is correct then I'd think the OP has a valid warranty claim. Normal brake track wear should not cause that type of failure in so few miles and the picture doesn't show the type of wear that would result from getting a sharp object stuck in a brake pad so as to cause abnormally abrupt wear.

He said Gatorskins... Highly unlikely to get wheel set with Gatorskin tires and fee shipping for $100 :p

It's entirely possible, but we're not the arbitrators. He already tried and they declined. I try to offer possibilities so he can decide for himself, which is the first step. Then if he feels justified, the next step is to do what's necessary to convince the maker, or force it via small claims court, which is why I suggest enlisting the opinion of a local, who could serve as an expert.

I don't know if he bought from a dealer or direct. If the former, than the dealer will have some sway. But even if not, often a maker is more willing to accept an "expert" opinion over that of a consumer. Certainly, if he goes to small claims court, an affidavit from a local mechanic would bolster his case.

This is the game that companies play with useless warranties - make it so expensive to collect that nobody bothers.

No, even a super cheap rim shouldn't have failed like this so soon, but you take your chances with cheap.

You can get a very nice rim for less than $30 new.

He mentioned the 28 mm Gatorskins while I was posting my initial response. But he also said that they were replacements for the original 25mm tires.

I have 45+ years in this industry, both as a manufacturer and handling warranties for other companies. I would never issue a warranty claim based on a phone conversation (except for nickle and dime stuff). Until a maker sees the item in question it's only an alleged warranty. So it's not at all unreasonable to ask to see it, or if sold through dealers to insist that the process be handled through dealers.

There's another reason a maker would want to see it, which is to find out what actually happened. Based on the failure, they might want to modify the product in the future. (yes, manufacturers do respond to issues).

What the OP might try with the maker, is to get a commitment that if it is defective, they not only replace, but reimburse the shipping. I'd gladly do this if I were the maker, so the customer ended up whole if he had a legitimate beef.

Oh absolutely.

But if you were a slightly less than scrupulous manufacturer, and you were selling a cheap product that you knew had a high failure rate, and you don't use a dealer network... you might advertise a warranty in big print while burying the prohibitive cost and trouble of the return process in the small print.

Which of these two business models do you think applies to Bike Island?

I don't know Bike Island (part of bikesdirect.com, maybe?) But I'm not a fan of buying things like wheels from unknowns. As they say, you get what you pay for, and should factor the likelihood of good support after the sale when making the buy decision. Of course you can't judge a e-store by it's home page.

BTW- Bike Island didn't make the rim.

I don't know how far away they are, but the OP should be able to return the wheel for much less than the $30 he mentions.

Footnote. Rims are made of extruded aluminum and not prone to isolated failures of this type. If the wall section is this thin, and not the result of track wear or scoring, then there's possibly a serious problem of large numbers made with a thin wall prone to this failure. That would be a serious safety/recall issue, so the OP might try a different tack and ask to speak to their CPSC compliance person. Unless the seller is a real slug, that should arouse concern, and get them to take this seriously.

Agreed.

- Most likely the rim was damaged in use, not a warranty issue.

- Much less likely: the extrusion die was getting worn out and the rim manufacturer let way too many rims get sold with too-thin walls and may have a lot of valid warranty claims coming up.

- Very very much less likely, there was an extrusion problem or alloy defect affecting only this one rim - that would be a warranty as well.

- INFINITELY less likely, is Bike Island's counter claim that "this can happen from an improperly seated tire."

This isn't likely. as dies wear the extrusion ets fatter, not thinner (less die = more space). OTOH, if the rims have machined sidewalls, they could be fixtured improperly causing one side to be cut to below spec. I would assume that any decent maker has rim wall thickness gauges, and tests constantly, but who knows how diligent a no-name make might be.

Right wrong, fault or no, it's a game of push between the OP and the seller.

Did you need to use any tools to get the old tires off or the new tire on?

Just wondering if something was bent/damaged by the tool, which wasn't noticed until re-inflating...

stuff happens sometimes.