BB spindle identification - Nightmare!
 

Hello.

So, a while ago I replaced the cup'n'cone BB bearings in my 1988 Peugeot. I also got a new crank set and spindle. It's the crank/spindle that's causing me grief at the moment.

Below is a photo of the old spindle. As far as I can measure, it's 32.5 mm, 56 mm and 33 mm, giving a total length of 121.5 mm. I can find spindles of the correct length, but not with those exact dimensions. Has anyone encountered a spindle like this before? It has the numbers "8" and "21" and the letters "S" and "B" on it.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf262412d.jpg
OLD SPINDLE

I'm kind of asking this question too late - I'd already bought a spindle (assuming that all 121.5 mm spindles would be the same) only to find that they're not. But, since the bearing is adjustable, maybe this isn't too much of an issue as long as my chain line is okay... ?

But there is a much more... *ahem* pressing issue - the press fit between the new crank and the spindle. In the following photographs you can see that the old crank sits much farther in (4.5 mm) on the spindle that the new crank (on both spindles). And the old crank sits too far in on the new spindle.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa8a6abf9.jpg
OLD SPINDLE NEW CRANK

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps67a996d4.jpg
OLD SPINDLE OLD CRANK

This would indicate that:
Both old crank and old spindle were JIS,
The new spindle is also JIS,
The new cranks are ISO.

Now I've read on Sheldon Brown and various forums that one can mix 'n' match between standards with no problems, but I'm having problems here. When I go to tighten the nut on the end of the spindle I strip the threads instantly. I think this is because the threaded boss doesn't protrude enough from the spindle for the nut to get enough purchase (because the crank sits too far out on the spindle).

So I think I need to get a new spindle. But, it's hard to find spindles 121.5 mm long, it's impossible to find spindles that are divided into the dimensions I mentioned above, and the sellers on the likes of Ebay NEVER state weather it's JIS or ISO.

Before I spend any more cash, would anyone have any thoughts on the issues I'm having at the moment? Any input would be really appreciated - I'm itching to get this machine back on the road!


EDIT: I forgot to mention that the old cranks were made by Sachs Huret, and the new ones by Gipiemme.

It doesn't have to be exact, just close. Here's a chart of some common sizes, but there are plenty more. If you can't find a close alternative, I have a munch more including many with 55mm between the inner bearing races. PM me and I'll check alternatives.

Are you sizing the spindle length to the new crankset or to what you had with the old crankset? Spindle length is primarily based on the crankset so you may be looking really hard for the wrong part.

I assumed that I should get a spindle that was the same length as the old spindle.

CACycling, do you mean to say that I should forget about the length of the old one, and find one that gives me the correct chain line? So chain line and JIS/ISO are the only specifications that I'm interested in?

If this is the case, how would one shop around for a new spindle? It seems that only way to check the chain line is to mount the new cranks on the spindle in the bearing and check, then try another one...

Yes, every crankset has its own spindle length spec. Do not expect the replacement to use the same length spindle unless the crankset is an exact duplicate. Google will get you the spindle length you will need. Myself, once I need a new spindle I just go with a cartridge bb instead, as you can find a Shimano UN26 for $10.

Temppe, Here's some info: Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database .

Brad

Okay, so I found my crankset on VeloBase:

VeloBase.com - Component: Gipiemme Dual Sprint

It says I should use a spindle 113 mm long - on an ITALIAN bottom bracket. I presume that by Italian bottom bracket, then mean 70 mm wide (this is what Sheldon says). My bottom bracket is the more common 68 mm, so does this mean I should go for a 111 mm bottom bracket? Or is 002 mm going to make any difference at all...?

And I just want to say that I really appreciate you guys taking the time to share your advice!

The same overall length spindle should be used irrespective of the BB shell width. the only difference between 70mm (Italian) and 68mm (ISO) is the distance between the bearings. However you're concerned with the distance of the crank from the frame's center plane.

As to whether 2mm (or half that) matters depends on how much crank/frame clearance. If there's 3mm clearance losing 2mm may not matter. OTOH if there's only 1mm clearance, you don't have 2 to give up.

How far up does it seat on the spindle taper?

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/crank-arm-seat.jpg
Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition

Well if you look at the first post in the thread I have some photographs.

The old spindle was almost flush with the bottom of the extractor hole. The new crank on the new spindle sits 4.5 mm farther out. So the problem is definitely a question of finding an ISO spindle of the correct length.

I'm trawling through Ebay and it's so f*ucking hard to find ISO spindles, of any length. Most of 'em seem to be JIS, judging by the photographs (which isn't a great way of telling, but the sellers never state weather it's ISO or JIS).

I did find a TA 344 spindle in France. The Velobase page doesn't say if it's ISO or JIS
(VeloBase.com - Component: Spécialités TA 344).
I've read that all TA spindles are ISO, but they look a bit short for ISO in the photographs... so are all TA spindles ISO or is this information incorrect?

EDIT: Actually I just looked at a Gimpiemme spindle on Velobase. It looked short, but it said it was ISO and not JIS. So am I being stupid trying to tell from blurry photographs...?

BB spindle sizing
 

How appropriate that I should find this thread. I am trying to sort out my main ride - a 1979 Canadian built Raleigh Grand Prix. The Bottom bracket is 70mm Wide which means it wants a spindle/axle with a 55 mm central dimension.

The current spindle is a 5T which is 130mm long and sizes 35--55--40. I really would like one that is 32--55--32 if such a thing exists in one of my LBS junk bins.

I have found a spindle with different form of ID but don't know if it is appropriate and hope somebody here can enlighten me. On one side it has the characters C and S and on the other 7 and 21. The central dimension is about 56~ mm.

Thanks for any help.

It's impossible to differentiate a JIS spindle from an ISO one by sight. The difference in the taper contact areas is very small. Just because the taper is as long as a typical JIS one doesn't necessarily indicate that it isn't ISO. To my knowledge, all TA bottom brackets/cranks are ISO taper. Any Campagnolo would work too, and 112-114mm spindles aren't uncommon on eBay.

A Canadian Raleigh will not have an Italian bottom bracket. It's likely an English with a shell either slightly wider than 68mm, or 73mm (though this was more common on mountain bikes). Are the cups marked with "36 x 24" or "1.370 x 24"? Are you sure the old spindle is marked "5T" and not "3T"?
118mm symmetrical cartridge bottom brackets are very common, cheap, and easy to find. You're better off installing one of these than trying to find a vintage spindle on its own.

The thing is that a few years ago I updated from a cottered crank to a cotterless one with a crankset that I got from an old Raleigh princess that I got from the tip. That's the one that is a 5T. The cup and cone pieces are original, but it wasn't until I replaced the front derailleur that I realised that the spindle was wrong. The BB is measured at 70mm, so therefore from my understanding needs a spindle with a 55mm centre. I haven't found a symmetrical 55mm one easy to find. The only identifying marks that I can find on the visible parts of the cup and cone are the letters that look like 'boris' on the lockring.

Cheers,

P.

I have a bunch of NOS SR brand 55mm (70mm BB) spindles, probably including a 5T. Let me know exactly what you need and I'll see if I have an exact match.

I think Torchy is on to something. What if you got a JIS cartridge BB designed for a 73mm shell? You could shim the drive side 3mm. With a shimmed 73x118mm BB You'd be about 34mm on the drive side. You could also turn your spindle around and be 35mm on the drive side for free.

Thanks for the offer, but I expect that the postage from US of A to the UK is prohibitive. As I said in my first post, I think the ideal is a 32-55-32, so that would be 119 long.

Cheers,

P.

It sounds like you've really mixed some parts to try and get it working. How did you figure out what bottom bracket size you consider to be ideal, and exactly what crankset are you trying to install?

Alrighty then. Well, if you cannot find "ideal", then maybe something close will work. Nothing says that the spindle has to be symmetrical, lots and lots of bikes run asymmetrical spindles. You just need 32mm on the drive side to get correct chainline, correct? If that's the case, according to Sheldon Brown, a 5N spindle would have 32-55-35 measurements Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database. You could put the shorter end on the drive side. Good luck.

As you note, that would do fine. And as Torchy says, yeah, it is a bit of a put it together to get a good working bit of kit job. The crankset is a 52/39 sprocket set and I can't remember teh name on it, but not one of the well-known ones.

G'night all.

BAck to my original question, can anybody give me any detail on this spindle?

"I have found a spindle with different form of ID but don't know if it is appropriate and hope somebody here can enlighten me. On one side it has the characters C and S and on the other 7 and 21. The central dimension is about 56~ mm."

Cheers,