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Shimano 7410 headset bearing source

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Shimano 7410 headset bearing source

Old 04-29-14, 11:40 AM
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Shimano 7410 headset bearing source

Anybody know where I can find a bearing race for a Shimano 7410 headset? I'd hate to have to toss the whole thing for want of a single proprietary part.

Thanks...
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Old 04-29-14, 11:49 AM
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The HP-7410 used sealed cartridge bearings and I believe used the same crown race (really a base plate) and cups as the Ultegra HP-6500 and 105 HP-5500. You may be able to find one of them using these part numbers too.
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Old 04-29-14, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
The HP-7410 used sealed cartridge bearings and I believe used the same crown race (really a base plate) and cups as the Ultegra HP-6500 and 105 HP-5500. You may be able to find one of them using these part numbers too.
They are the same, but it looks like they've been discontinued. I'm hoping to find an orphan somewhere.
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Old 04-29-14, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by aixaix View Post
Anybody know where I can find a bearing race for a Shimano 7410 headset? I'd hate to have to toss the whole thing for want of a single proprietary part.

Thanks...
Not clear whether you need a crown race or a new (cartridge) bearing. In any case, at any one time, there are a few dozen of these headsets on Ebay. The crown race from Shimano's mountain bike series (XT, LX and STX) is also compatible. Make sure you get the right size (1" I assume, and not a JIS version). In fact, the steel crown races are far more robust than the alu race that came with the 7410.

If you need a cartridge, it will be faster to revive your old one. Yes, they can be taken apart and cleaned out. It takes about 20 minutes, some patience and a very small flat-blade screwdriver. If the races are brinelled (indexed), then throw out the plastic ball retainer and the old balls, and fill up the cartridge with a greater number of compatible balls to what was there before. Basically, fill it up and subtract one ball. Grease liberally, and snap it back together.

Don't listen to anyone who says you need a new headset. These are the best threaded headsets ever made, and replacing the whole thing will involve a lot more cost, time and potential incompatibilities (stack height?) than servicing what you have.
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Old 04-29-14, 03:11 PM
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Thanks, Dave. I need the bearing itself. The crown race is, like the rest of the set, in perfect shape. I thought about taking the bearing apart, but I suspect it is well and truly trashed as the amount of rust that came out of it when I rinsed it with degreaser was appalling. The upper bearing is fine.
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Old 04-29-14, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by aixaix;167.13333
Thanks, Dave. I need the bearing itself. The crown race is, like the rest of the set, in perfect shape. I thought about taking the bearing apart, but I suspect it is well and truly trashed as the amount of rust that came out of it when I rinsed it with degreaser was appalling. The upper bearing is fine.

Yes, due to wheel spray, it is always the lower bearings that go first. If it was me, I would still take apart the cartridge, do a light sanding to get the rust out. Then repair as described previously. Then swap the upper bearing to the lower position - the two bearings are the same.

Or, perhaps the cartridges in the following are compatible.. No guarantees.

ORIGIN8 PRO Threaded Headset 1" Silver | eBay

Nashbar also used to market a very fine cartridge-based headset of similar design.
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Old 04-29-14, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Or, perhaps the cartridges in the following are compatible.. No guarantees.

ORIGIN8 PRO Threaded Headset 1" Silver | eBay
Huh. I have one of these origin 8 headsets AND a 6500 headset in the partsbin. I'll take a look tomorrow.
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Old 04-29-14, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
Huh. I have one of these origin 8 headsets AND a 6500 headset in the partsbin. I'll take a look tomorrow.
Looking forward to hearing what you find. I don't think Origin8 supplies parts, but the headsets are a lot cheaper than Shimano. And if you turn up an orphan bearing, I'll be your best friend...
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Old 04-30-14, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by aixaix View Post
Looking forward to hearing what you find. I don't think Origin8 supplies parts, but the headsets are a lot cheaper than Shimano. And if you turn up an orphan bearing, I'll be your best friend...
Just out of curiosity, I took a cartridge out of a 1" threaded Nashbar-branded headset that I have in my stash. The cartridge fit fine in a lower Shimano cup, but the crown race did not match - some rotational binding. If I only had this Nashbar headset parts, I would use the bearing, plus the Nashbar crown race.

But I will bet that there are a few remaining 1" cartridge headset brands out there, and many of the parts are cross-compatible.

As far as real Shimano cartridges, I found mine in the headset parts bin of my local Co-op. They were a bit gritty inside, but quite salvagable.
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Old 04-30-14, 11:28 AM
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If you measure the cartridge you may find that it is standard and available from bearing supply houses.
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Old 04-30-14, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Nashbar also used to market a very fine cartridge-based headset of similar design.
I had (actually still have) one of these headsets. I installed it on an '83 Trek 400 I built up as my rain bike/bearer and it replace the original loose ball headset in '03. It survived 10 years of bad weather abuse and is still in service on this bike, now converted to a fixie, for my son-in-law last year. As I recall, I paid about $13 for it!
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Old 04-30-14, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
If you measure the cartridge you may find that it is standard and available from bearing supply houses.
It's unlikely, given that the headset cups are barely larger than the bearings they contain, I'm certain the bearing assemblies were custom-made for the application. Other headset makers might use the same assembly as Shimano, but I don't think Shimano would build a headset around a stock bearing: stack height and bulk is critical in a headset and determined by the size and configuration of the bearing sets. Also, standard bearings are designed for shafts and bores that are parallel and at right angles to the plane of the bearing race. This bearing is designed to be trapped between two cones.
I took the thing apart and it is rough. The balls are trashed and the bearing races are deeply pitted. I replaced the balls & cleaned it up as best I could but it still feels gritty. Might be usable on top, but I'd love to find another.
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Old 04-30-14, 01:22 PM
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About all I can recommend is buy an HP-6500 or HP-5500 from Ebay and use the bearing cartridges. Since your current top cartridge is good, you will then have two rebuilds for the bottom.
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Old 05-01-14, 06:40 PM
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Turns out I don't have a 6500 headset- I have a shimano 600 branded headset (64xx?) that has cartridge bearings.

They're very close to fitting the origin 8 cartridges, but they don't fit. I'd be shocked if the shimano cartridges didn't cross with something else out there. Maybe not a bike, but something.
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Old 05-05-14, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
Turns out I don't have a 6500 headset- I have a shimano 600 branded headset (64xx?) that has cartridge bearings.

They're very close to fitting the origin 8 cartridges, but they don't fit. I'd be shocked if the shimano cartridges didn't cross with something else out there. Maybe not a bike, but something.
Thanks for checking!
As for the bearings being a standard size: they just aren't. They are made not only to a specific size, but to a specific taper. Standard bearings are generally made for cylindrical shafts and bores. The Shimano bearings are meant to fit between two conical tapers.
A manufacturer can use an existing bearing or have one made especially for the application. I believe Shimano would have done the latter for a number of good reasons, mainly appearance, size and weight.
Again, thanks for having a look!
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Old 05-05-14, 02:56 PM
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Turns out I DO have a 6500 headset. I'll keep looking- also have a tange levin cartridge headset that I can try, on top of a very well stocked formula sae team at work whose catalog of bearings I can try and find a cross in.

Also found this- https://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830610601.pdf but neither a google of '5/32"x18 bearing' nor 'shimano part 787 9803' yields anything useful.
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Old 05-05-14, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by IthaDan View Post
...but neither a google of '5/32"x18 bearing' nor 'shimano part 787 9803' yields anything useful.
The "5/32x18 bearing" refers to the use of 18 loose 5/32" bearing balls in each race. It's not a cartridge bearing designation or description.
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Old 05-05-14, 04:53 PM
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as a last resort, my advice is to find the closest place that sells bearings, usually an industrial supply outfit, then take the bearing there and see what they can do. i used to spend days with my dad tracking down oddball machinery parts (at the lowest price of course) and other junk. it's doable...
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Old 05-06-14, 02:25 PM
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I'm no expert on headset bearing info but I do know there are several commonly used cartridge bearing types in many current headsets and you may find something compatible. Your bearing may still have a marking on it such as this denoting the size and angles used (click the photo for a readable size). Another common shape is a 36deg x 45deg. If you can determine the size and angles just do a search and this should return a bunch of options. Hopefully Shimano used a common size.
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Old 04-27-21, 12:13 PM
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I realize this is an ancient thread but I wonder if Dave Mayer or one of you guys who have done it can offer some more details about how you open up one of the Shimano carts with the small screwdriver to clean.re-lube? I can imagine ruining this in a blind attempt with no pointers.
TIA!
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Old 04-27-21, 12:41 PM
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It's fairly easy to pry off the seal of most cartridge bearing units with a thin blade, think SAK or Xacto knife. Care taken to minimize distortion but minor seal "waves" are also easily corrected before reinstall of the seal.

Once the seal(s) are off a flushing with solvent to clean out the old, drying (air blast helps) and squeezing in fresh grease is also not hard. Do know this is like taking pain meds for broken bones. You might feel less roughness but the balls and their tracks are still in the worn condition they were before. The grease just reduces the feelings. Andy
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Old 04-27-21, 01:14 PM
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So, I've been down this path and can offer a little more information. Apparently this is caused by water thrown up by the front wheel directly towards the lower bearing seal, causing rust and premature wear.

First off, it is virtually impossible to completely disassemble this bearing and put new balls into the races. I've worked with miniature ball bearing seals for many years, and even with my special tools these only comer apart so far before you hit the wall of 'Press Fit Bits Never Meant To Be Separated'. However, you CAN take off the flat bearing seal by using a thin flat blade- like an X-acto blade- on the SIDE of the bearing case, where there is a seam between the metal case and the flexible cap:


This leaves you with the main bearing assembly and the seal cap. I've been unable to further disassemble the main bearing assembly without damaging the pressed in metal ring, but at least you can do a much better job of cleaning out the rust and old grease. A good high pressure flush with Brake Clean or similar and injection of grease -ideally under pressure to ensure maximum fulfillment- as mentioned above will somewhat alleviate the problem.

I've also purchased actual Shimano replacement bearings, but they are different from the originals- in fact they are 'reversed' in that the metal ring is on the opposite side of the bearing case. The bearing assembly itself is not identical to the original part and it's not a precise fit- height is off by a half mm or so- but at lease these can be fully disassembled and rebuilt (replacement unit is on the left, original on the right)


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Old 04-27-21, 01:25 PM
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rccardr Thanks a ton, Dr. Cannondale! That's very helpful!
Where have you found those replacements bearings available (and is there a part number to use to get the correct ones)?
Thanks again!
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Old 04-28-21, 12:55 PM
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Random eBay sale, part number was their SKU, not Shimano’s part number. But that correct part number is out there somewhere...
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Old 04-28-21, 02:32 PM
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This might help. Not cheap, but...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224395686872

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