cap +1

Lugged frame bikes that are brazed at a lower temperature does not ruin the strength of the tubing as much. Also the lugs extend back on to tubes as you say, so they spread the stress over a wider area to help prevent breakage.

And yes I know-------------------that people that claim to know say the steel tubing of today is made to take the temps of fillet welding that is done these days. However I would venture to guess a brazed and lug frame would stand the stresses longer.

Actually as I have posted elsewhere, I believe that mfg may be smoke screening about fillet welds and the supposed superior tubing, because robot welders can turn out a fillet welded frame much faster. Fast builds means more profit for the mfgs. Faster is not always better.

That's one. I can name about a hundred aluminum bikes for each steel one you can bring up. And I'm much more likely to find a model in a store then you will for a Surly.

correct

and the full range of aluminum bikes
from the burliest and toughest
to lightweight racing bikes
are all on display at every bike store

compare that to the one or two steel models
you can expect to see or test ride

If you're buying new, sure. But if you're looking used, steel bikes were made exclusively for many decades. I have a few steel bikes. Not necessarily by choice, but because it was the cheapest/most available bike to fit my needs. I also have a few aluminum and a couple carbon fiber bikes.

with the exception of carbon
your fleet sounds like mine

but nowadays
when buying used
the ratio of steel to aluminum available
is steadily rising
because
while steel was just about the only game in town
twenty five + years ago
by fifteen years ago
bike shop bikes were almost exclusively aluminum

It is amazing how spot on this analysis is. Have you been following me on my rides? :)

I didn't mention it before, but there was definitely a creaking noise that I couldn't pin down towards the end of last year's season. I checked almost every potential source of creaking besides the frame itself. I remember thinking it was coming from the bottom bracket area too (tried reseating the cranks), and that's right near where the weld failed. I agree there was probably a crack there late last season, I just wasn't looking for it. I've had various creaks in the past that were due to lack of grease issues (seatpost, stem, etc.) and even improperly-seated wheels, so I didn't think it was something as serious as a frame crack.

When the weather turned bad, I stopped riding and forgot about the creak. My first ride this season was when the chainstay snapped. Haha, if it hadn't, I probably would have been posting a thread titled "Unknown source of creaking" and I'm sure a bunch of people would have linked to Sheldon's page about creaks.


Yes, less efficient, but in many cases more effective for certain reasons. As I'm sure you know, you can get a significant increase in power by going off saddle. In most cases I am climbing for maybe 2 minutes tops so I'm not worried about efficiency, and I get up the hill a lot faster. For long duration hills, yes, I usually spin most of the way, intermixed with off saddle riding. Aside: when I did TOMRV in 2011, there was a guy that did the entire double century ride with no saddle.

You'll see plenty of pro riders going off-saddle. Granted, in many cases it's to initiate a breakaway or attack, but many times you'll see them just cranking away off the saddle. It could be to work different muscle groups or relax the groin region. Besides the thrill of attacking a hill, I am also going off the saddle for these reasons.

Music to my ears. Hopefully the warranty replacement carbon frame will stay together. I've since switched the towing duties to an old aluminum Trek mountain bike.

Buying used is a different kettle of fish. However, Cannondale has been making and selling aluminum bikes since 1983. Klein has been doing the same for a little longer. And, as Wilfred Laurier points out, aluminum hit its stride quite a while back. I'd say that 15 years is being very conservative. That's only 1999. I'd push it back to around 1995.

Yup. I've had that experience several times. It's only after the part fails that I realize what the sound meant:o

I think you are misunderstanding what I said above. I wasn't saying that you shouldn't stand up on climbs. Only that trying to pedal with the bike kept vertical underneath you is not the best way to climb out of the saddle. I throw the bike from side-to-side as I ride out of the saddle. I've had to ride where I couldn't throw the bike from side-to-side and I've never found it to be effective nor efficient.

Good luck.

Gotcha, my bad. Yeah, I have tried to keep the bike more vertical but it definitely doesn't feel right. I am always amazed watching final sprints in the Tour and seeing their bikes sway violently back and forth.