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Generic Groupset Upgrade Question

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Generic Groupset Upgrade Question

Old 05-26-14, 04:48 PM
  #1  
DaveLeeNC
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Generic Groupset Upgrade Question

I've got a mid 90's Bianchi Nivacrom (Oversize steel) bike with a full 8 speed Chorus/Ergo groupset. I have decided that I really like this bike and would like to upgrade to a new Chorus 11 speed groupset. Are there any special issues that would be encountered in doing this? Is this something that a complete bicycle mechanics newbie could actually do successfully?

And a related question. What kind of weight change (if any) would I encounter in making this change? There is tons of data regarding the current Chorus groupset weights, but I can't find anything WRT the old 8 speed stuff. Weight is not the point here, but I am curious.

Thanks.

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Old 05-26-14, 05:19 PM
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No real issues, except make sure yo get the correct BB (36x24f or 1.37"x24 ISO), and headset.

Then the only serious question is rear triangle width. If i isn't 130mm, you can either spring it open as you fit the wheels, or spread it permanently (my preference).

As for weights, the biggest change will be in the cranks and BB. Then probably the wheels depending on what you go with. Bars, and post will be lighter if you go carbon, with possible savings in the stem only possible if threadless.

Chain, and other drive train components are slightly lighter, but not enough for a celebration.
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Old 05-26-14, 05:33 PM
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Thanks for the response, FB. To the best of my ability to measure without removing the rear wheel, my spacing is 130mm. But that is hardly an accurate measurement. I would think that 'springing it open' (if that can be done without damage) would be a much better approach. A rear tire flat on the road sounds like no fun with a too narrow rear triangle.

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Old 05-26-14, 05:35 PM
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Bike is now 8-speed Campy, that would naturally be 130 mm dropout spacing wouldn't it?
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Old 05-26-14, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Bike is now 8-speed Campy, that would naturally be 130 mm dropout spacing wouldn't it?
That would be my assumption. But from my position of maximum ignorance in such matters, I would never be sure - would Campy ever do anything non-standard :-)

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Old 05-26-14, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Bike is now 8-speed Campy, that would naturally be 130 mm dropout spacing wouldn't it?
Probably, but I don't try to remember details, and so said IF it wasn't.... just in case.

After a while, my mind is like a saturated sponge. I have to push out old info I don't need to make room for new stuff. (it's probably an age thing).
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Old 05-26-14, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
After a while, my mind is like a saturated sponge. I have to push out old info I don't need to make room for new stuff. (it's probably an age thing).
I don't have that problem. What I know leaks out at a rate faster than stuff flows in :-)

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Old 05-26-14, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Probably, but I don't try to remember details, and so said IF it wasn't.... just in case.

After a while, my mind is like a saturated sponge. I have to push out old info I don't need to make room for new stuff. (it's probably an age thing).
Entirely understandable from my point of view. I thought maybe I had missed something about Campy 8-speed spacing.
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Old 05-26-14, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
Thanks for the response, FB. To the best of my ability to measure without removing the rear wheel, my spacing is 130mm. But that is hardly an accurate measurement. I would think that 'springing it open' (if that can be done without damage) would be a much better approach. A rear tire flat on the road sounds like no fun with a too narrow rear triangle.

dave
You misunderstand. "Springing it open" means flexing the stays to squeeze the wheel hub in without a permanent deformation. The spacing returns to the original width when the wheel is removed. That is what you don't want from a convenience point of view. Cold setting is the process of bending the stays past their yield point so the deformation to the new width is permanent. Better all around.
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Old 05-26-14, 06:21 PM
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Thanks, rp. I assumed that there had to be some process for making 'the springing' permanent. This is beyond my skill level, for sure. And it would appear beyond my requirements as well!

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Old 05-26-14, 06:47 PM
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You don't need to replace everything to change to 11 speed. If you are on a tight budget, you could just get new shifters, cassette & chain, and keep the front derailleur & crankset and brake calipers.
I don't know if the rear derailleur has the correct pull ratio to work with 11. And I also don't know if your rear wheel will take an 11 speed cassette.
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Old 05-26-14, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
Thanks, rp. I assumed that there had to be some process for making 'the springing' permanent. This is beyond my skill level, for sure. And it would appear beyond my requirements as well!

dave
It's a frame builder job for sure.
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Old 05-26-14, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
You don't need to replace everything to change to 11 speed. If you are on a tight budget, you could just get new shifters, cassette & chain, and keep the front derailleur & crankset and brake calipers.
I don't know if the rear derailleur has the correct pull ratio to work with 11.
It doesn't. Campagnolo increased the actuation ratio from 1.4 to 1.5 to get the added reach for 10 speed (9 speed is about 1mm wider, and the 10 speed cog is dimpled or on an offset carrier so it hangs off the end) and a bit more for 11 cogs.

And I also don't know if your rear wheel will take an 11 speed cassette.
It won't with the current freehub although a swap is possible. Campagnolo changed to alloy freehubs with deep splines (smaller inside diameter) so they don't dent with the move to 9 cogs in 1997. The splines are the same for 10/11, although the later hubs use a 27x1mm lock ring instead of 26x1mm (neither of which is the same 29x1mm as 8 cogs) and the longer threaded lock ring for 11 cogs is only available for the later 27x1mm configuration.

You'd need a 12mm freehub for Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheels with steel axles (not the one for the over-sized aluminum axles). You may also need an extra 1mm washer for the drive side to make room for the wider freehub.

( I upgraded my 1996 Chorus hubs to 9 cogs when Campagnolo discontinued my favorite 8 speed cassette arround 2000 and am now running 10 on those wheels)

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 05-26-14 at 07:42 PM.
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