Wheel Lacing Frustration
 

Sorry if this has already been covered. I looked, but couldn't be sure I was seeing what I needed. I am putting a 1964 Huffy Sportsman back on the road. The original Sturmey Archer AW was rusted solid so I got rid of it, got new spokes of the same length and a spare 1963 Sturmey Archer AW. For whatever reason I can NOT lace this wheel right. I'm getting better, but still I end up with 10 spokes too long; every 4th one. I used the 4 Cross method thinking that was right. What could I be doing wrong? I'm ready to go just find 10 shorter spokes and call it done!!! :(

I've done this a couple times. It happens when the spokes are inserted in the top flange offset by one spoke. Remove the spokes from one flange and try again.

I believe that all the spokes on the AW hubs I have seen were the same. Since it is every 4th spoke, and 10 are too long, I assume that the wheel has 40 spokes.

Because it is every 4th spoke (I assume you are counting from the rim) this means that all of the spokes are from the same side of the hub, and are either all leading or trailing spokes. My advice is based on these assumptions.

It sounds to me like for some reason you are doing 4 cross everywhere except for half the spokes on one side are off.... I would try to shift each of those "long" spokes 4 holes further to take up the extra slack in the spokes' length... If my assumptions are correct, this will take up the extra spoke length perfectly.

EDIT: Jeff replied while I was posting, I think he is right... I forgot that the holes on each side of the hub are not aligned with each other.

Another thought: you are "lacing" the spokes, right? That is you are crossing three spokes on the same side of the flange as you start and the fourth one on the other side of the spoke/flange. Or put another way: over, over, over, under or under, under, under, over? That interlacing will take up a little length.

That's the way I tried it the first time so I thought I would do 4 Cross with no interlacing. I saw that it was that way on my '63 Hercules. I just looked at the wheel again and the long spokes are all on one side.....

key spoke is the 1st one .. get that wrong you start over, I have redone them myself.

it's remarkable that there are so many ways to lace a wheel with unsatisfactory results :). although all of the above mentioned reasons are valid, i've had the same result by not paying attention to whether or not the spokes were initially inserted into the hub flange in the proper direction (innies or outies).

maybe this was mentioned in a previous post. i read them all, but sometimes i miss something. :)

Start by looking at your rim near the valve. You care about the first to holes to the right. Assume you're looking from your right and determine if the zigzag from the valve is far then near (left then right), or the opposite.

Now line up the hub so left flange is behind and above the right an sight across. Notice that the holes in one flange are spaced between the holes in the other. The first two spokes you'll be threading will be pulling spokes, so decide it you want both head in or head out. Now, remembering the rim's zigzag sequence you'll thread the spokes in the two flanges in the same sequence, so if the rim is left right, you'll thread a spoke in the right flange, and the first hole to the left in the left flange, and bring them to the corresponding holes in the rim.

Twist the hub to the right and confirm that the spoke to the left in the rim connects the the hole to the left in the hub. Once you've confirmed this, everything else will fall into place.

So, I just completed try number 6 or 7 on my lunch break. After these last two tries now my valve stem hole is blocked in. It's getting worse. I think that the spokes would all tighten down, but the threads would all be poking into the tube. I know the spokes are the right length because I measured them with a spoke ruler and compared them to the old ones. I don't get it. Just don't get it. The pattern looks perfect and just like the one on my '63 Hercules. Are the methods different at all between 36 hole and 40 hole? I'm following a 36 hole video on youtube.

No, the basic method is unchanged.

Follow my instructions in post #8 to correctly position the two pulling spokes that go to the right of the valve, in either left/right or right/left sequence according to the rim, and staying consistent at the hub. These will be pulling spokes, so wind the hub to the right when you go to lace the crossing spokes. That will ensure the open gap is at the valve.

As for crossing, 40h can be built 3x or 4cx, so do whatever you decided when you calculated, but don't forget the 1st cross which is right at the hub flange.

The key to not going crazy is to have the 2 pulling spokes, 1 from each flange, connected correctly before going further. If these are right everything will follow correctly (except you still have to count crosses). If they're wrong, you're doomed, and nothing will follow correctly. So think, lace 2 spokes, stop, think, check, and confirm before going any farther.

There is also the tutorial on the Sheldon Brown site. You can't miss with that. Pretty much what FB said, but with pictures.

Is this a front or a rear. When you say 10 spokes are too long (the last 10?) are you taking rim centering into account? Do you have the rim too far over to the side of the flange where the 10 long spokes are? That could be your problem.

Sometimes doing a job that's giving you trouble is like looking for keys you've misplaced. You end up looking in the same places and getting continually more frustrated.

It's time to STOP and take a break from it, and come back only when you can do so with a fresh attitude. Otherwise, you'll keep repeating variants of the same mistake, and waste time and effort working yourself up.

It's a 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub. I think I do need a break........

In the wheel building world, the hub doesn't matter, only the external dimensions, and number of holes. You could have 3 hamsters on a treadmill inside, it's all the same.

Go have a beer, read my posts Nos 8 & 10, then bring the hub, 2 spokes & the rim to a table along with another beer, and read, drink and look at the parts until it makes sense ans you can get those two spokes only in place.

BTW- I didn't say, but it's important that you don't let the hub twist around with respect to the rim after those spokes are in (rare, but can happen. protect yourself against that error by putting a mark on one side of the rim near the valve and calling that the right side from now on.

Got your message FBinNY. It wouldn't let me respond. Thanks, I will be contacting you....maybe this weekend.

I got it!!! I think I actually had it the last couple times, but wasn't sure and was concerned about how much of the spoke threads were sticking out past the spoke nipples. I wonder just how far they can stand out before the rim tape doesn't keep the tube safe? Now, on to some truing!