Any reason not to use Lock Tite on headset lock nut?
 

Title says it. I have an older steel bike with a 1" threaded steerer. It seems like every time I take it on gravel or even rough road, the headset gets loose. It's a nearly new sealed bearing headset so it isn't a wear issue. Is there any reason not to use a drop of regular Lock Tite on the threads under the lock nut to keep the headset from loosening up?

Thanks

It should not be necessary if you are tightening the headset lock ring properly. The problem suggests you're doing something wrong. Maybe the steerer is a bit too long for the headset? But a very small amount of blue (lower strength, removable) Locktite won't hurt. A whole bunch of red (high strength, permanent) Locktite would be a bad idea. Other brands of thread locker may use different color codes.

The headset lock ring is being tightened quite firmly using the proper headset wrenches and I have checked to make sure that the lock ring isn't bottoming out due to too long of a steerer. This one has baffled me a bit as I have owned several older bikes with threaded headsets and not had nearly this much of a problem keeping the headsets tight. This one will stay properly adjusted indefinitely on smooth roads but just a couple of rides on washboard gravel or other rough surfaces and it loosens right up. I'll try the regular Lock Tite as long as there is no reasons not to. The only thing I can think of is that the threads on the lockring are just slightly loose on the steerer allowing enough friction for normal road use but not enough to withstand hard vibration.

Thanks for the response.

Perhaps you need a spacer. I've seen this problem many times and often that's all that's needed.

Good luck!

I did the measurements and am reasonably sure the lock nut is not bottoming out, but there is plenty of thread that I could put a thin spacer in there to see if it solves the problem. Worth a shot.

Thanks

Blue Loc-tite or a few wraps of Teflon tape on the screw. If you go the loc-tite route, put a nice, new Allen screw in. Nice tight socket. The old one could be worn enough to strip come time to remove after using the blue loc-tite.

"Perhaps you need a spacer. I've seen this problem many times and often that's all that's needed."

I think that's a good idea, I imagine the threads in that region have at least seen a fair amount of drama now after having tightened and loosened so many times, on top of whatever wear on the steerer threads had already been there to cause the problem to begin with. For whatever reason, I have never seen lock-tite on steerer threads; and therefore generally just feel uneasy about it. Good luck, man.

Allen screw--on a threaded steerer?

Oops, not paying attention to detail. Have you "marked" the lock ring to see if it is moving? If so, a slightly more drastic move would to "peen" a couple of threads with a punch to keep it from moving.

Is the lower race completly seated on the fork crown? If it was recently replaced, maybe it's not completely seated. Gravel pounding may finally get it seated, but deformed also.

Lock-tite won't hurt but it won't help either. More below.

This isn't true. You can properly tighten a threaded headset to the point of pulling the threads off the fork and it probably won't hold when used off-road. There was a cottage industry back before the advent of threadless headsets making and selling headset locking devices. BikePro is a defunct mail order catalog site that is preserved in Interwebs amber that lists a couple of examples. These guys still sell the Gorilla Headlocks. The Headlock is just a fancy shaft lock.

Back in the bad old days, even the best adjusted headset on a mountain bike was almost guaranteed to loosen on an off-road ride. I have replaced many threaded headset that were pounded into oblivion by off-road use and have no love for the damned things. Threadless is far superior.

The reason that the headset won't stay tight is the very nature of the part. You have to have the race loose enough that it will turn and you jam the lock nut onto the race to keep it from moving. However under the pounding that the bike undergoes in off-road situations, the lower race can move relative to the lock nut. Once it moves even a little, the lock nut is no longer "locked" and the headset loosens. A thread locking compound won't help much because the race could still move relative to the locknut.

the threadless headset was invented as an act of desperation...

Oddly, my old mountain bike's threaded headset stayed tight through years of off road riding.

Anyway, the OP is not pounding his bike off road. He is riding on gravel or just a rough paved road, and the headset comes loose every ride. If this was normal behavior, mountain bike forks would be falling off right and left.

No. The threadless headset was invented as an answer to a common problem. That they happen to be a superior product is just a bonus.

The clamping nuts that I linked to were just 2 of a multitude of locking systems that you could buy because loosen headsets was a constant problem. You can still buy some of them today. BikeFriday has a Cane Creek headset with a locking locknut and they sell the Delta Headlock for $8.

The forks can't "fall off" unless the rider is particularly clueless. There's a lot of thread that the top nut and the race would have to unthread to get to the point of a fork falling off. But if the headset loosens just a little, there is enough play in the system to bash dents into the headset races. Even a short downhill on a loose headset can ruin it. It was not an unknown nor a rare problem. And it is a problem that was solved completely and elegantly by the threadless headset.

For a 1" threaded headset you typically need a 32mm 1/8" thick Headset wrench for holding the adjustment,

while you use a second wrench of similar size on the locknut to tighten against the stationary wrench underneath it.

adequately tight , it will stay like that..

...on a smooth road. Off-road? Not so much.

If You didn't get it tight enough .. and keep it that way .. it gets loose if ignored .. then its User, not the part's fault.

The problem is that you can't get the locknut/bearing cup of a threaded headset tight enough to withstand off-road pounding on a mountain bike. It has a lot to do with the orientation of the fork. While a bottom bracket and a hub use a similar method of keeping the bearings in place, they aren't subjected to a vertical force on the shaft. On a fork, however, the forces that come up through the headset can cause a momentary slacking of preload on a threaded headset. This isn't much of a problem with road bikes but mountain bike experience far more momentary upward force during impacts, drops, jumps, etc. The bearing has to be loose enough to move which means that there is always a possibility of movement of the nut relative to the race. If even a small amount of movement occurs, the lower race can then be damaged which causes more chance of loosening. And, in my experience, it doesn't take too much to loosen a headset in off-road conditions.

And, once loosened, a threaded headset is very difficult to fix in the field. Carrying 2 headset wrenches with you to tighten a headset that has loosened due to impact is almost impossible and not very practical. Cooltool made a spanner that worked with their tool that you could use to tighten the nut to get yourself out of the woods but it wasn't that useful due to the nature of the part...you need two wrenches, not just one.

The reason that the shaft locks...that's all the locking mechanisms I've linked to above are...solved the loosening issue is that they make the movement of the top nut more difficult relative to the race. Threadless solved that issue quite nicely as well. The shaft of the steer tube is locked in place and really can't move relative to the bearing race.

Without disputing the benefits of threadless headsets...

Out of curiosity, wouldn't it work to put a spot of blue Lock Tite on the race and the lock nut? Since the upper race is effectively just a specialized nut it would seem like it would work. You would need to pretty much adjust it right the first time, but it could provide some benefit.

And in thinking about this specific case, and the ease with which it loosens, I would also suspect there might be something else at play... Perhaps something like an ovalized head tube.

Dueling Opinions , again ..
Whatever ... His bikes get less care, and beat up more than mine , I guess.

OK I dont live in Colorado with it's Roclies.. to crash and fall on.




one + .. I found on cartridge BB ( 20+ year old Chris King )

is they dont go out of adjustment with in themselves..

I swapped out the locknut from aluminum to steel , and one with a stem sealing O ring..

The locknut and or the steering tube might be stripped. One bump and the headset loosens.

I've had threaded headsets stay tight on an unsuspended MTB for a year between services. This was hard riding by a clyde on singletrack, with jumps and drops. Maybe if the threads get damaged it will loosen up, but mine is/was fine. I think in terms of actual mass times acceleration, a road bike going over a half-inch obstacle on skinny tires puts more instantaneous force on the headset than a suspended MTB dropping a foot. The reason threadless headsets evolved is because keeping 5 different lengths of suspension forks of each type in stock was economically unfeasible.

I already stated above that adding locktite wouldn't hurt. I should have said it probably wouldn't help but sometimes I brain gets ahead of my typing. I'm all for experimenting but I'm also realistic about the possible results.

Do you know for a fact that my bikes get less care than yours? As far as I know we've never met so you can't say if my bikes get less care then your bikes or not. Perhaps you don't ride your bikes and only use them as wall displays.

Yes, I ride my mountain bikes off-road and I do ride them hard but that, in my opinion, is what they are designed to do.

You cannot keep your headsets adjusted adequately apparently from your statements , I can ..

Other than the pointless cross fire ..

Note :

It is possible to make a threadless conversion of a threaded fork and Bypass the whole issue, for pretty cheap ..


here it is : steel tube quill stem-raiser inserted past the threaded portion, and the quill wedge is tightened .

and it doubles the thickness where the threads are cut. then the same sort of parts , a top race , minus the threads .


the spacer rings and a 1/16th shim around the steerer and a 9/8" stem...


if you are leaving it as is ? just push a Star nut in the end of the tube .. there are those for 1" threadless steerers ..


Re: Lock Tite use any amount you wish , there are much stronger varieties than the blue stuff.

Thousands of other people had exactly the same problem as does GravelMn. Hence the shaft locking solutions I've linked to and then the threadless headset. Gorilla Headlocks were only one of about a dozen companies that sold that kind of product. Several companies sold headset OEM with the lock like I linked to in another post It was a very common problem among hardcore mountain bike riders. We weren't all hamhanded dolts.