rms13

I picked up an Centurion Ironman Dave Scott master. I want to upgrade the wheels because they look like they've seen better days. The cassette definitely needs to be replaced. It's a 6 speed rear with Shimano 600 components.

I have modern low end Veuluta wheelset that I thought I could use but it seems the spacing is off (130 vs 126)

Can I make the new wheel fit and will it take a 6 speed cassette?

Any recommendations on the cheapest way to do this? I think my front wheel will fit the frame so I just need a rear/casette

Al1943

Are you sure it's a 6-speed cassette and not a freewheel? Shimano 600 could be either.
If you have indexed shifting the cassette cog to cog spacing will need to be compatible with the shifters.
Another option is to rebuild the wheels if the hubs are in good shape.

rms13

I'm not sure if it's freewhweel or cassette. Here is a picture:



I know my Park FR-5 cassette tool doesn't fit so maybe that means it's a freewheel?

The shifters can be switched index/friction

bikemig 

No big deal to run the 130 mm wheels in your steel bike. You can just force apart the stays and slide the wheel in. Or you can spread the frame: https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...s-just-do.html

Your new wheel can go 8, 9, or 10 (even 7 with a spacer) but you will need different downtube shifters if you want to index.

Personally I'd go with a modern wheel and get new downtube shifters. It's not problem getting 126mm rear wheels but you might as well go with something more modern; plus 8, 9, or 10 on the rear gives you more gears. What's not to love about xtra gears?

Al1943

I'm not sure what you have either. You need to do some research before pulling the trigger. 6-speed cassettes and freewheels look similar from the front. Sheldonbrown.com has discussions with some photographs of early cassettes and freewheels. Here are some additional pictures: 6-speed cassette shimano - Bing Images. Just remember that if you want to use the index shifting feature the rear shifter must match the cog spacing. With a steel frame you have many options with many different prices.

bikeman715

What you have is a 6 speeds freewheel . You need the Parktool , FR-1 to remove it .

rms13

I went to the LBS and talked to the guy there. He was trying to sell me a 120mm wheel with threads for freewheel (same wheels I have on my single speed/fixed gear bike). He claims this will work with no spacers just by squeezing the drop outs to fit the wheel. Is this a good plan?

rms13

Thanks. I assume I can install a new freewheel without a tool as I would with a single speed/bmx freewheel?

Andrew R Stewart 

rms13- I wonder if the shop suggesting to use a 120mm rear wheel is because that's what they have on hand. Always a poor reason, to make the shop's inventory management needs happy... Yes, a multy cog freewheel will spin on and self tighten like a single speed one. Andy.

zacster

You can put an 8/9/10 wheel on there if you spread as has been suggested. You'll need a matching chain if you do. As for the shifting, what I find is that friction shifting with a 10 speed cassette is actually a huge improvement over either early indexed or friction with the old freewheels, and is almost as good as current indexing. Hyperglide cassettes, and the other brands too, have ramps which aid the movement of the chain from one cog to the other, and the chains are improved too. Since the spacing is so tight, you don't find yourself in between gears either, and again the ramps force the chain to stay on one cog. It takes a short movement to make the shift, just a touch really. You won't run out of swing either, since the overall spacing is only marginally larger in the rear compared to the swing of the shift lever.

As far as stressing the frame from spreading it, as some have suggested in other threads on this subject, I have been riding one steel bike like this for over 10 years now. Just don't try it with aluminum which has a higher likelihood of cracking. On a carbon frame I've put a 135 mtb wheel into a 130 dropout, but I wasn't actually riding it. I was using it as a truing stand.

I have two bikes set up like this now, and did this on a third for someone else. It just works.

Homebrew01

Time for a new LBS.

Put a bit of grease on the new freewheel threads if you decide not to convert to cassette.

Antieverything

I was just going to read and keep it to myself but...

The guy at your LBS that suggested a fixed gear wheel for your multi spee freewheel is a supreme idiot! Yes the multi speed will thread on, but the small cog will stick out well past the cone nuts and will need spacers to make up the difference. Then once you get that set up your wheel will sit off center and need to be re-dished. Again this proves my point that just because the guy works at a shop does not mean he knows what he is talking about.

You can get a modern wheel and either just cold set the frame, or spread the drop outs manually everytime you take the wheel off. But be aware that if you indeed to keep 6 speed indexing then it will entail a custom spaced cassette. The original 6 speed cassettes were for special hub bodies. If you go for 7-10 speeds then you will need new shifters (for indexing only, for friction the shifters you have will do), a spacer for behind the cassette depending on the # of speed, and possibly a new chain because a 6 speed chain will rub the cogs of a 9 speed cassette.

Another option is getting a 126mm/freewheel wheel so it will work with what you have. You can find decent brand new wheels on eBay or a period correct wheel like say a dura ace hub/mavic ma40 wheel like I have on my bike.

Beware of those bike shop guys...sheesh

rms13

Thanks everyone. Yes I am very wary of this particular LBS but since I've learned more and more about working on my own bikes and I'm on my 4th "project" bike now I only go there to buy small parts and a few tools. This was actually the owner of the shop trying to sell me on the 120mm wheel and yes I know he was trying to sell me what he had in stock and he was selling the one wheel for $70 when I could get the same wheel in a set on line for $100.

Per my other thread, I'm currently trying to get the stock wheel true enough to make it rideable. I have it to a point where it's just got a little up and down wobble so I think I can make it rideable for now. Then I will search ebay for a 126mm wheel and get a new 6 speed freewheel. I don't wan't want to spend too much money. Just want a nice rideable vintage steel road bike with dt shifters as a change of pace from my CAAD. 12 speed is plenty for what I'm using for. Fits nicely between my 20 speed compact crank bike and the single speed. I may upgrade to 13-34 freewheel when I find a new wheel so I can do some climbing

fietsbob

Dont have to leave the 120 axle(5speed) as it comes .. add a spacer to a longer axle ..

Ive done the Inverse taken a 5 speed hub and a few spacers and a single speed freewheel wheel was created

with some spoke tension rebalancing..

bikeman715

Yes you can replace the freewheel without the tool . The tool is only needed to remove the freewheel .

nfmisso

What is the issue with the current wheels? If the hub cups and cones are in good shape, use the original hub with new spokes and rim to build up a new wheel. In the Bay Area, there are people on CL who will build up a new wheel for $25- plus materials. Probably similar in your area - ask for references and check out examples of their work before committing.

As noted above, you definitely have a freewheel and not a cassette.

jyl

The existing wheels, if original, are probably better quality than the cheap new wheels you are considering. Fix what ails the existing wheels - replace the freewheel (maybe $30), clean and repack the bearings, true and tension if needed.

ThermionicScott 

126mm spacing, eh? I'd convert to a nice 7-speed freehub wheel, being me.

rms13

The wheels are Araya rims with Suzue hubs. I have no idea what the quality of those are.

Velomine is selling Sun rims laced to Quanta hubs in 126mm for $135

Sun M13 Silver 700c SEALED Bearing Road Bike Wheels 126mm Fits Vintage Bikes | eBay


I've bought wheels from Velomine before and I believe they are hand built or at least tensioned and trued. But I have been very happy with the other wheels I got from him.

I would be curious if anyone knows anything about the wheels I have and if they are worth rebuilding. I cleaned them up. Still a little dirty but doesn't seem to have any rust or pitting and the hubs spin pretty smooth

furballi

If the rims are true and not worn out, then you only need to replace the freewheel. The index downtube shifter will still work if you stick with 6-speed freewheel.

If you want to upgrade the rear wheel, then go with Shimano 105 hub. I prefer to use 8-speed cassette, but you can always drop in 10-speed. You'll also need to upgrade the shifter, either put the original downtube shifter in friction mode, or upgrade to briefter or bar-end friction/index.

Ironman Master should come with Shimano 600 hubs.

nfmisso

Much MUCH better than what you have listed as replacements. Ride them till the brake pads wear thru the rim's sidewalls, then get some Velocity or Mavic rims, new premium spokes, and build up new wheels with the same hubs.

rms13

Thanks. I have no idea what model they are. the rims say "Araya 700c Japan" and the hubs say "Suzue". They wheels are heavy as an anvil. The front wheel is true and the rear is now good enough to ride so I will ride them and buy parts eventually to start building