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Need to choose between Dura-Ace 7800 and Ultegra 6800

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Need to choose between Dura-Ace 7800 and Ultegra 6800

Old 06-10-14, 07:33 AM
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drdave943
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Need to choose between Dura-Ace 7800 and Ultegra 6800

I am looking to upgrade my bike. It is a Scott CR1 with all 105-5600 components. It has over 2000 miles.
Things are a little clunky sometimes but generally work fine.

A friend is upgrading is Dura-Ace 7800 with about 3000 miles on it. Seems to be in good condition. He would sell the whole thing, brakes, crank, cassette, etc. for under $400

The other choice is to save up and buy a Ultegra 6800. I would get 11 speed cassette which is nice. It has good reviews and is newer technology so it should be supported longer. Also, replacement parts would be less expensive.

I am looking for ideas on how to make the decision.

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Old 06-10-14, 07:41 AM
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That is a screaming deal on the 7800. One of the best looking groups ever. Remember with 11 speed you may need a new rear hub, depending.
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Old 06-10-14, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
That is a screaming deal on the 7800. One of the best looking groups ever. Remember with 11 speed you may need a new rear hub, depending.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty good. I have Mavic wheels which are supposed to handle the 11 speed.
The reviews I read on the Ultegra 6800 are that they are very close to the new Dura-ace. So, I am wondering if the 6800 might even be smoother and better than the Dura-ace 7800.
I can get the 6800 for about $700.

I mostly ride to work and home 2-3 times a week. Lots of small hills so I do a fair amount of shifting.
I put on 50-70 miles/week. I carry a backpack and a little extra body weight (thus the need to ride) so saving a pound on components right now is the least of my worries.
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Old 06-10-14, 10:18 AM
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Barring something being broken, the 105 components on your current bike should be able to be adjusted to work quite smoothly. So in my opinion you shouldn't have to upgrade just to get things working nice.

Now if you want to upgrade, then that's a different story (and there's nothing wrong with that.) I'd go the Dura-Ace route. Cheaper, and a better deal. Probably so close to the newer Ultegra model that it would be hard to pinpoint the differences in performance. And then your bike would say Dura-Ace on it for that "wow" factor.
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Old 06-10-14, 11:04 AM
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My 10 year old 7800 with 30K on it still works great. One of the best groups ever!
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Old 06-10-14, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Man View Post
Barring something being broken, the 105 components on your current bike should be able to be adjusted to work quite smoothly. So in my opinion you shouldn't have to upgrade just to get things working nice.

Now if you want to upgrade, then that's a different story (and there's nothing wrong with that.) I'd go the Dura-Ace route. Cheaper, and a better deal. Probably so close to the newer Ultegra model that it would be hard to pinpoint the differences in performance. And then your bike would say Dura-Ace on it for that "wow" factor.
I have had my bike in twice to have it adjusted. It still sometimes will not shift to the next cog. Sometimes it takes two shifts to get it to jump. Yesterday it would not go onto the largest cog until I went to a smaller cog and back up.

Also, I just replaced my 12-25 with an 11-25 cassette and it struggles to get to the smallest cog under load. No adjustment seems to help. On the rack it works fine. So, I assumed my rear derailleur might be going out.
I also have some problems shifting to the large chain ring on front. I tested the 7800 and it shifts a little better.

I do think that changing cables and maybe the chain will help. Just don't want to replace everything twice.

The offer of the Dura-ace 7800 sounded intriguing so I thought I would look into it. The main reason to upgrade is to just get smoother shifting.

Thanks for the ideas. I welcome other thoughts as well.
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Old 06-10-14, 01:51 PM
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One thing to consider would be gearing options. You can get 6800 with a 32T cassette. I was disappointed by the appearance of the 6800, sort of a flat gray. That said, it's gotten great reviews and you have to think there would be functional improvements over 7800.
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Old 06-10-14, 08:59 PM
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i would just get 6800 for 6-700 online
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Old 06-11-14, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BikeWise1 View Post
My 10 year old 7800 with 30K on it still works great. One of the best groups ever!
I always lusted after that groupset. Lovely kit and a great performer.
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Old 06-11-14, 11:38 AM
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My 4 year old dura ace 7800 shift like a dream. 9000 miles no problems the front brifter much smoother than my 6600. Also requires no trim on a standard double can use all gears no derailluer rub in any combo.
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Old 06-11-14, 11:57 AM
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A thing to consider is that you very well might need to replace that cassette on the 7800 in the near future which will push up the cost of that set and get it closer in price to the 6800. Probably need a new chain and cables as well. All that stuff would come with the new 6800 kit. On the other hand ribble (my go to site for this sort of thing) is out of braze on FD's and anything other than 172.5 cranksets, which sort of makes the $700 groupset more theoretical than anything else for me. Of course there are other sites to choose from.
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Old 06-11-14, 01:47 PM
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I don't normally recommend used shifters but in your case I would go for the D-A.
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Old 06-11-14, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
On the other hand ribble (my go to site for this sort of thing) is out of braze on FD's and anything other than 172.5 cranksets, which sort of makes the $700 groupset more theoretical than anything else for me. ....
himespau, what do you mean by "out of braze"?

and what do you mean by the $700 groupset being more theoretical?

I had considered that I might need to replace the 7800 cassette. Turns out the cassette and crank have 6000 miles. It is only the derailleur that is low mileage. However, sounds like 30K miles is not unheard of.
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Old 06-11-14, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BikeWise1 View Post
My 10 year old 7800 with 30K on it still works great. One of the best groups ever!
BikeWise1, have you ever replaced the cassette or overhauled the shifters or derailleurs?
How often do you replace the chain?
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Old 06-11-14, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by drdave943 View Post
himespau, what do you mean by "out of braze"?

and what do you mean by the $700 groupset being more theoretical?

I had considered that I might need to replace the 7800 cassette. Turns out the cassette and crank have 6000 miles. It is only the derailleur that is low mileage. However, sounds like 30K miles is not unheard of.
"Braze on" the type of front derailleur I would need if I was going to purchase that group (bolts onto pre-positioned brazed on adapter as opposed to being a "clamp on" front derailleur), and they are out of stock in everything except clamp on front derailleurs (may or may not affect you). Without the appropriate FD for me, the ability to buy the set is more theoretical than practical. Of course, like I said, there are other sites that might have the crank lengths and types of front derailleur to make it workable, and, if you like 172.5 cranks and clamp on FD's it would work just fine for you. In that case 11 speed with a 32T big cog sounds nice as it'd give you the spacing of a 10 speed with an extra low gear.

braze on

vs.


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Old 06-11-14, 02:10 PM
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I vote 6800. I just assembled a bike equipped with it this morning, it impresses me every time. Shimano's front shifting, in particular, just keeps getting better.
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Old 06-11-14, 02:20 PM
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Another vote for 6800, having used both, perfer 6800, apart from the cassette/freehub width issue, which may not be an issue as you have a Mavic freehub, 7800 is 2 generations old, no warranty, and support from Shimano for spares will become more limited as time goes on (they normally support for approx 2 generations / 10 years).

For the front shifting, as #well biked mentions, it is better, much better with 6800 than the previous design, also with 7800, I found the FD's corroded/chrome plating wore off very quickly, far quicker than the 5700 FD's I have, which are now far more used and abused than the 7800 I had, and in much better condition, (my 6800 is far to young to tell on this)
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Old 06-11-14, 03:20 PM
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2k+ miles
Heavy rider
Hills
Poor shifting @ rear
Shop unable to correct with adjustments

Have you measured your chain for wear? A worn chain might be the issue.
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Old 06-12-14, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by desertdork View Post
2k+ miles
Poor shifting @ rear
Shop unable to correct with adjustments

Have you measured your chain for wear? A worn chain might be the issue.
My chain broke (about 200 miles ago) and when I had the shop fix it they measured it. Still has half its life. I lubricated the cables, too. That helped some. I paid the shop to do an adjustment and that helped a little.

Part of why I am looking at upgrading is that I will soon need a new chain and cables. Don't want to buy them then replace them again with the 6800 group set. If I get the 7800 I would replace the cables and probably put on a new chain at the same time.

Seems as though opinions are varied about the smoothness between the two. Sounds close enough to be more due to tuning and rider preference and age. I do worry some about the age of the 7800 but I hear of 30K miles and it sounds like the Dura-ace last longer.
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Old 06-12-14, 10:01 AM
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Ahh - duh! You said "out of" "braze-on FD", not "out of braze" "on FD". Makes more sense when you read it right.

That does give me another thing to look at. I need to determine how the FD will attach to my bike. I think mine is brazed-on because there is no bracket like shown in your second photo (SRAM force).
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Old 06-12-14, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
A thing to consider is that you very well might need to replace that cassette on the 7800 in the near future which will push up the cost of that set and get it closer in price to the 6800. Probably need a new chain and cables as well. All that stuff would come with the new 6800 kit. On the other hand ribble (my go to site for this sort of thing) is out of braze on FD's and anything other than 172.5 cranksets, which sort of makes the $700 groupset more theoretical than anything else for me. Of course there are other sites to choose from.
Cassettes, chains, and cables are wear items. DuraAce shifters do not demand a DuraAce cassette or chain. A $20 ten-speed Tiagra cassette works just as well as a DuraAce cassette.

$400 for DuraAce 7800 is a steal. And you don't have to replace your front derailleur, nor would you be likely to notice any difference if you did anyway.
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Old 06-12-14, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by achoo View Post
Cassettes, chains, and cables are wear items. DuraAce shifters do not demand a DuraAce cassette or chain. A $20 ten-speed Tiagra cassette works just as well as a DuraAce cassette.

$400 for DuraAce 7800 is a steal. And you don't have to replace your front derailleur, nor would you be likely to notice any difference if you did anyway.
+1
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Old 06-12-14, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by achoo View Post
Cassettes, chains, and cables are wear items. DuraAce shifters do not demand a DuraAce cassette or chain. A $20 ten-speed Tiagra cassette works just as well as a DuraAce cassette.

$400 for DuraAce 7800 is a steal. And you don't have to replace your front derailleur, nor would you be likely to notice any difference if you did anyway.
Wow, tiagra 10 speed cassettes are really that cheap nowadays? I think the last time I bought a tiagra casette they were still 8 speed and were $25 or so way back then.
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Old 06-12-14, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by drdave943 View Post
Ahh - duh! You said "out of" "braze-on FD", not "out of braze" "on FD". Makes more sense when you read it right.

That does give me another thing to look at. I need to determine how the FD will attach to my bike. I think mine is brazed-on because there is no bracket like shown in your second photo (SRAM force).
Yeah, I should have put that little hyphen in there to make more sense. My bad.
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Old 06-12-14, 12:22 PM
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Try a different shop to adjust what you have. They are obviously adjusting it on the stand and not test riding it. They don't care about you. There should be no reason your 105 group shouldn't serve you perfectly well. I have Sora and other components on my bike and they work just fine. I adjusted them on the stand when I put them on and then tested it with a load on it (me, and on the street!) and adjusted it a bit more. Unless you like spending money un-necessarily and don't care if your new group will have the same problems because of lazy bike mechanics, go ahead with the new stuff!
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