Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Wanting to switch from side pull to centre cantilever brakes

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Wanting to switch from side pull to centre cantilever brakes

Old 07-01-14, 05:05 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wanting to switch from side pull to centre cantilever brakes

I have a late 80's Pug that I want to move on to centre pull, specifically using a set of Weinmann Vainqueuer 610/750, currently have the old standard Weinmann type 730 I think. Is this a straightforward operation?
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-01-14, 05:32 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,392
Likes: 0
Liked 28 Times in 26 Posts
You want center pull brakes. Cantilever brakes are a different type and they require brazed on mounts. In my opinion, MAFAC center pulls are superior to Weinmanns, but some would not agree.

I just put Weinmann 730's on an old Jeunet. They work well if they're set up right and you give them some decent pads.



Smoothing them with jeweler's files and polishing them is optional.

The pads are Mathauser C.

Park makes a special centering wrench that turns the spring and a thin 10 mm wrench for tightening the locknut that are really helpful when working on these.

You'll never get them right if the spring is bent. I had to replace this one with an identical Dia Compe.

Last edited by Grand Bois; 07-01-14 at 05:50 PM.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 07-01-14, 06:09 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,199

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

Liked 4,007 Times in 2,383 Posts
After determining that the reach can be handled by the brakes you wish the next biggy is to solve the cable casing stop/hanger. The front is usually pretty straight forward by using a steerer mounted hanger trapped between the top race and lock nut. The rear hanger can be trickier. Most times the hanger can be mounted on the binder bolt. Either on the two outer ends of from the exposed center portion. When the frame has a binder which is recessed into the lug barrel and the binder slot is too narrow to accommodate a center hanger creative methods are needed. Andy.
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 07-01-14, 09:35 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Lascauxcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,924

Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.

Liked 636 Times in 358 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois
In my opinion, MAFAC center pulls are superior to Weinmanns, but some would not agree.
I have both in use right now. The better one is whichever has the modern brake pads (Kool Stops) mounted in them.

I don't know if it's worth anything, but I've never had a "bad" set of centerpulls, but I've had some mushy-feeling single pivot sidepulls.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●

Lascauxcaveman is offline  
Old 07-01-14, 10:14 PM
  #5  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,686

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Liked 2,641 Times in 1,534 Posts
Bad centerpulls are out there. I'm thinking of Cherry. Lethal.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 12:20 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois
You want center pull brakes. Cantilever brakes are a different type and they require brazed on mounts. In my opinion, MAFAC center pulls are superior to Weinmanns, but some would not agree.

I just put Weinmann 730's on an old Jeunet. They work well if they're set up right and you give them some decent pads.



Smoothing them with jeweler's files and polishing them is optional.

The pads are Mathauser C.

Park makes a special centering wrench that turns the spring and a thin 10 mm wrench for tightening the locknut that are really helpful when working on these.

You'll never get them right if the spring is bent. I had to replace this one with an identical Dia Compe.
Do most brake sets transfer easily from frame to frame or are some more frame specific depending upon age and manufacturer of bike?
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 12:23 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
After determining that the reach can be handled by the brakes you wish the next biggy is to solve the cable casing stop/hanger. The front is usually pretty straight forward by using a steerer mounted hanger trapped between the top race and lock nut. The rear hanger can be trickier. Most times the hanger can be mounted on the binder bolt. Either on the two outer ends of from the exposed center portion. When the frame has a binder which is recessed into the lug barrel and the binder slot is too narrow to accommodate a center hanger creative methods are needed. Andy.
Should I send you some pictures of my set up?
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 12:30 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman
I have both in use right now. The better one is whichever has the modern brake pads (Kool Stops) mounted in them.

I don't know if it's worth anything, but I've never had a "bad" set of centerpulls, but I've had some mushy-feeling single pivot sidepulls.
The side pulls on my Peugeot 'Mongrel' 85-89 are prone to moving off centre, I have tried to adjust but I cannot seem to remedy this, I need to replace cable and housing but I thought if I'm doing that I might as well improve the brake set and get rid if the aux brakes also.
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 07:41 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,199

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

Liked 4,007 Times in 2,383 Posts
Originally Posted by SH27
Should I send you some pictures of my set up?
Post photos to the thread and others can help. A view of the upper headset/stem area, front brake as it exists currently, seat post and seat binder bolt area, rear brake and the planned center pull brakes. Andy.
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 08:03 AM
  #10  
jyl
Senior Member
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 31 Posts
For centerpull brakes, you will need to add cable housing stops. Centerpull brakes usually lack quick releases so get cable house stops with quick releases.
jyl is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 08:11 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois
You want center pull brakes. Cantilever brakes are a different type and they require brazed on mounts. In my opinion, MAFAC center pulls are superior to Weinmanns, but some would not agree.

I just put Weinmann 730's on an old Jeunet. They work well if they're set up right and you give them some decent pads.



Smoothing them with jeweler's files and polishing them is optional.

The pads are Mathauser C.

Park makes a special centering wrench that turns the spring and a thin 10 mm wrench for tightening the locknut that are really helpful when working on these.

You'll never get them right if the spring is bent. I had to replace this one with an identical Dia Compe.
Beautiful bike GB
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 08:12 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
Post photos to the thread and others can help. A view of the upper headset/stem area, front brake as it exists currently, seat post and seat binder bolt area, rear brake and the planned center pull brakes. Andy.
Hi Andy, I'll do this as soon as I get home, thanks.
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 11:22 AM
  #13  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,876

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Liked 3,482 Times in 1,975 Posts
Originally Posted by SH27
Do most brake sets transfer easily from frame to frame or are some more frame specific depending upon age and manufacturer of bike?
In general, yes. Just be sure that the caliper "reach" allows the pads to land on the rim's brake track and not on the tire or in the spokes:

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 11:50 AM
  #14  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Liked 1,360 Times in 866 Posts
Paul's racer centerpull brakes Racer from Paul Component Engineering

just helping you spend your money on American Manufactured products..

Their Medium is 47~57mm reach, the above link is for a larger reach..

Last edited by fietsbob; 07-02-14 at 11:55 AM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 11:05 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,739
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by jyl
For centerpull brakes, you will need to add cable housing stops. Centerpull brakes usually lack quick releases so get cable house stops with quick releases.
jy; Ditto on that for the OP; He can find nice Shimano ones that look like the below pix on ebay for about $3-5 each end. You will find folks selling same for $20 'cause they are old or historical or collectable. Ignore them and look for the good price ones.



A little filing may be needed if used with a modern bike (like this example of mine which has thread-less 1.125" steerer), but takes only a few minutes. The rear one, if used on a bike with an external seat-post clamp (like pix), one needs to buy a slightly longer center bolt for the clamp. Just take the current clamp apart, measure the bolt and get one a bit longer. The bolt D is probably 5mm (test by screwing it into a rack eyelet on one of the dropouts). A bag of 10 can be found on Amazon for about $8 (for example size of 5mm x 50mm). If one is want to do so, can buy longer threaded adjuster part to sub in, but shouldn't be necessary. The functional and era-correct Q/R is the value add. Great for getting fat-tired wheels off the bike easily (mine are 37mm and 43mm).

Hope that helps
/K
Attached Images
ksisler is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 04:06 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
Post photos to the thread and others can help. A view of the upper headset/stem area, front brake as it exists currently, seat post and seat binder bolt area, rear brake and the planned center pull brakes. Andy.
Hi Andy, here are some photos of my current set up, I haven't identified or decided upon a replacement as yet.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
photo_1 (1).jpg (63.2 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg
photo_1.jpg (51.0 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg
photo_2 (1).jpg (56.4 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg
photo_2.jpg (56.1 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg
photo_3 (2).jpg (50.8 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg
photo_3.jpg (37.7 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg
photo_4.jpg (51.8 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg
photo_5.jpg (52.5 KB, 44 views)
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 05:32 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,392
Likes: 0
Liked 28 Times in 26 Posts
A better way to improve braking is to replace those steel rims with aluminum.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 06:21 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,199

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

Liked 4,007 Times in 2,383 Posts
I've worked on many of those Weinmann side pulls over the years. They have a center bolt with a hex end shape (resides in the plastic cosmetic cover that's over the pressure and lock nuts) which can be used to hold the center bolt while rotating it to achieve the centering of the pads. Nothing wrong with these brakes other then the leverage that side pulls of this reach have.

Before going to center pulls I'd try modern lined cable casing with redrawn inners and a set of good pads. Next up would be the switch out to Alu rims, which will benefit the ride quality and tire retention (at high pressures) as well as the braking. In fact I'd do the rims before anything else.

But if you must go to center pulls then to keep the bike as close to OE as possible I'd find a pair of good condition Weinmann 999s of the correct reach (I suspect the 610 version). Make sure the calipers still have the little red plastic cap covering the arm to arm tab. For cable hangers the common Weinmann or DC types that mounts to the seat binder bolt and on the steerer (between the top race and lock nut) should work well.

But as John and others have said try Alu rims first. Once you do you'll never go back to steel. Andy.
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 08:07 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob
Paul's racer centerpull brakes Racer from Paul Component Engineering

just helping you spend your money on American Manufactured products..

Their Medium is 47~57mm reach, the above link is for a larger reach..

I'll check these out for sure
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 08:08 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois
A better way to improve braking is to replace those steel rims with aluminum.
ignoramus talking here but why would alu be better than steel on braking?
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 08:19 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks guys, that's been a real help as well as an education, I'll take all that on board on start from ground up with the rims and the cables/housing, I am pretty sold on the idea of switching to rear exit levers as well as losing the auxiliaries.

Seeing as you are all from the states I should also like to take this opportunity to offer praise to your soccer team over in Brazil, a series of outstanding performances that sadly the same of which could not be said of England.
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 08:24 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,392
Likes: 0
Liked 28 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by SH27
I'll check these out for sure
They cost way more than your bike is worth.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 08:27 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SH27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 149

Bikes: A couple of motley Peugeots

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois
They cost way more than your bike is worth.
In that case they can stay your side!
SH27 is offline  
Old 07-03-14, 08:51 AM
  #24  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Liked 1,360 Times in 866 Posts
ignoramus talking here but why would alu be better than steel on braking?
friction stops the wheel .. chrome steel is too hard , and gets worse when wet .. low friction

it would only improve if you wore off the chrome with a grindstone like grit pad .

more force required to stop ,than rim brakes & your hands put out ..


Disc brake calipers put out more force.

& friction material in a disc pad is more Abrasive ... disc is stainless steel
fietsbob is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
kalash74
Classic & Vintage
10
01-09-17 02:00 PM
ruirui
Bicycle Mechanics
8
07-10-14 11:20 AM
bike-izle
Bicycle Mechanics
0
09-23-12 01:37 PM
3373jones
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
22
03-25-11 07:41 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.